[Karen37a]

I agree, businesses will always need "capital", but I have always believed there was only so much volume our alternative financing space was ever going to do. Put it like this.....who mainly uses the MCA? It's mainly (not all, but mainly) the business owner that's unsophisticated:

- The guy with poor/fair credit, with ranges from 500 - 640, which is considered poor/fair credit.

- The guy that's unorganized and does piss poor planning, which leads to the business getting behind on various expenses/projects (such as rent, taxes, payroll, etc).

- The guy who is over his head in a number of ways.

You do have those merchants who are sophisticated and just hit a temporary bump in the road, but those are the guys that are going to do this usually one time (two times max), pay it off, and stop.

The guys that keep renewing, stack on top of a 1st position, and jump back/forth between different companies, are mainly (not all, but mainly) the unsophisticated merchants that I outlined above. It's also these unsophisticated merchants that are the easiest to take advantage of, through lies, manipulation, etc., which is why they stack 7 positions and then call me saying:

"Hey John, can you help me? My annual sales are $600,000 but I have 7 balances with outstanding amounts due at around $100,000! These payments are killing me John! These cash advance companies are crooks! John, can you help me?"

Hell no I can't help you, smh.

. **the First sale that has to be made is getting past the gatekeeper or secretary.( actually the first sale is to yourself, so you do not pick up the phone with a defeatist mentality, losing the opportunity before you even get there)

if someone is very small self employed they wont have a secretary, anyone can get straight to them...those are mostly the unsophisticated ones.

Someone hires a secretary for 20k part time minimum wage...she has a part time minimum blocking/screening ability. There is a reason she is making min wage ( not all the time)

30-50k stronger Gatekeeper

70-100k..100-150k admin assistant If you are dealing with a strong gatekeeper, her job is to block you and screen you, not let you thru unless you have an appointment ( go watch Wallst the movie and see how many times Bud Fox calls to get to Gordon Gekko, then come back and tell me how he did it)

God forbid you are dealing with an extremely sophisticated $$ person. He will have a cfo type trying to tell you what to do.

So if you are mostly getting the unsophisticated ones, thats because your phone sales ability is that level. Or product knowledge.I learned how to bust thru the gatekeeper to the more sophisticated borrower.Id like to see you hold Mr Big Wig on the phone once you get to him for more than 60 seconds

There is the difference between inbound sales people, out bound smile and dialers, order takers and Real Sales people.

[dpFund]

As noted earlier, my closings are up over last year on a year by year comparison. But the pipeline is definitely thinner and the late payments/defaults have risen notably.

We are continually adjusting our funding model to adapt to a changing industry. The stackers are putting business owners and funders out of business. Sorry to see that.

Yeah, I am a lifelong proponent of thoughtful and intelligent salesmanship. Have probably read/integrated more sales techniques than many (if not most) people on this board and that is what keeps me thriving. But just hard-selling multiple positions is not a long-term strategy.

It might be helpful to have a thread devoted to nothing other than business development/sales techniques. I'm open to starting it but with this being a bank holiday and a lot of people taking the day off, probably not a good time to do it.

Dan Page
Direct: (303) 938-8280
dan@fundingstrategypartners.com

[jotucker1983]

. **the First sale that has to be made is getting past the gatekeeper or secretary.( actually the first sale is to yourself, so you do not pick up the phone with a defeatist mentality, losing the opportunity before you even get there)

if someone is very small self employed they wont have a secretary, anyone can get straight to them...those are mostly the unsophisticated ones.

Someone hires a secretary for 20k part time minimum wage...she has a part time minimum blocking/screening ability. There is a reason she is making min wage ( not all the time)

30-50k stronger Gatekeeper

70-100k..100-150k admin assistant If you are dealing with a strong gatekeeper, her job is to block you and screen you, not let you thru unless you have an appointment ( go watch Wallst the movie and see how many times Bud Fox calls to get to Gordon Gekko, then come back and tell me how he did it)

God forbid you are dealing with an extremely sophisticated $$ person. He will have a cfo type trying to tell you what to do.

So if you are mostly getting the unsophisticated ones, thats because your phone sales ability is that level. Or product knowledge.I learned how to bust thru the gatekeeper to the more sophisticated borrower.Id like to see you hold Mr Big Wig on the phone once you get to him for more than 60 seconds

There is the difference between inbound sales people, out bound smile and dialers, order takers and Real Sales people.

Goodness Karen, you had to go and ruin our productive business discussion, by somehow turning this back into a discussion on some silly "superior sales" theories lol.

Can we just keep the discussion on business metrics, market demand, market trends, forecasting, and other related areas? These are the real, quality, productive discussions that actually make a difference. Not these silly conversations about positive thinking, the Law of Attraction, or some supposed "superior sales technique" that you read about in a book at Barnes & Noble .

[FUNd]

I've worked for a very visible medium sized business in an unrelated field since I exited MCA last year and I haven't received one single live cold call from anyone offering working capital. Not ONE. There are obviously untouched business out there to this day, yet brokers keep pounding UCC lists and the same databases that have been passed around like a joint. No need to wonder why some brokers are seeing nothing but merchants stacked to the hilt.

That being said, I have no love for MCA or equipment finance anymore. I'll do a deal if it falls into my lap, but judging by market conditions and availability of capital, that isn't bound to happen anytime soon.

[HDF]

Awesome to see you around FUNd, you are still missed.

I think that what this boils down to is that most people on the phones do not know how to sell to new businesses that are not already in the game (a large pool of SMBs frankly). They are trained to "close" - which means nothing really except shoehorning a merchant into some deal.

Some ISOs and some funders are in such a panic now that their brokers will be discouraged from generating deals or even staying in the industry that they will do or say anything to prop themselves up. Look how some of the loudmouths are changing their tune recently, and how the non-MCA crowd has taken the floor.

Not much relationship building, strategic partnering, multi-channel marketing going on. Not sure any of this is healthy overall, but we'll see.

[Karen37a]

John,

You factored it into the discussion and I corrected you. And part of forecasting sales is the individuals ability to get clients and renew them . Each person is judged by their own merits and it 100% has something to do with the type of paper that you individually are seeing generated from your sales and marketing ability.

You can not keep making statements about the oversaturation and unsophisticated stacked borrowers when many of us tell the person "we cant help you" within 5 seconds in a pre qualification call and move on to find more qualified borrowers .

Each person has different Pre Qualification skills and each person has different results. Your results are so far off from mine it isn't even funny. Which is why I keep challenging your statements. If the whole industry fell apart, and while Rome was burning I carved out my small piece of the pie and made a a few million, while doing the right thing, wasn't what this was about? Well it is for me.


Quantitative analytics ( traffic reporting )vs Qualitative analytics ( what prompted them to buy from you and not a competitor and why did they buy) then using this data to your advantage to seek out your target market based on things other then Math and numbers .Go to Barnes and Nobel read up on it

If you do not know what winning looks like you cant replicate it in the future.

You really do not want the answers to these things, you just want to say woe is me the sky is falling. People need to look at the WHOLE picture or don't and get false data and move in the wrong direction...garbage in garbage out

[WestCoastFunding]

I just picture a wall of text being left on John's voicemail.

[Karen37a]

Back to the bickering. And saving face for each other.

Bottom Line...... Sales Data isn't just Math; many things come into play , anyone who doesn't look into the other factors /Algorithms is kidding themselves and not a good Salesperson or Sales manager /Owner

Think what you will.

[MCNetwork]

There are obviously untouched business out there to this day, yet brokers keep pounding UCC lists and the same databases that have been passed around like a joint. No need to wonder why some brokers are seeing nothing but merchants stacked to the hilt.

I agree. However, it's far harder to convert deals from a list of virgin businesses (companies that have never taken a cash advance) than a UCC list. The conversion rate from calling a UCC list is around 1-2%. The rate from cold calling new businesses is about half of that. Cash advances cater to companies that are experiencing financial distress. You have to find businesses that are in somewhat immediate need of capital. Believe it or not, most businesses are in decent shape and many owners would choose to shut down their companies instead of taking a high factor advance. UCCs on the other hand, represent businesses who are or were in financial trouble and already understand the cash advance product. It's a relatively easier sell than pitching to a virgin business.

In order to crack the virgin business market, you have to either cast a much wider net with your marketing (which can get ridiculously expensive) or come up with a value proposition pitch for these merchants. The same pitch you use with UCCs isn't as effective. Instead you have to offer an actual solution. For example, one of my clients is a large auto repair/tire retailer and he takes 2 six figure advances from me each year like clockwork. But he's not in financial distress. He actually uses the money to purchase inventory and nets at least 12% after paying the advances off. I visited him last year and asked him to explain exactly how his model works. Now I know his secret sauce and I have a solution that I can offer other auto repair/tire retailers. So now I made a list of all auto repair/tire retailers that gross $500K to $2 million per year and I tailored a specific proposal that shows how cash advances can yield them around 12% in pure profit.

My opening pitch to them goes something like this. "Hello Mr. Smith, I currently provide financing for a top 10 auto repair/tire retailer in New England. He's able to use my program and make about 12% in extra profit on his inventory purchases each year without investing a penny of his own funds. Would you like to learn how I'm able to achieve this for him?" This client will be much more receptive to that type of pitch versus me saying "Hello Mr. Smith, are you currently in the market for some working capital?"

The way to approach virgin businesses is that you have to attack a specific vertical and have a proven solution to offer them. You have to brand yourself as a financing expert who truly understands their industry. You have to really build a relationship and illustrate the value you can bring him. This is called value based selling. You're no longer just looking for distressed merchants. You're looking for healthy merchants that want to make more money. Now you have to actually sell instead of just being an order taker. This takes more sophisticated sales skills than a typical UCC list humper can offer. You can get rich just becoming an expert in one vertical. There's no need to try to sell cash advances to every SIC code under the sun. The shotgun cold call, jack of all trades master of none approach with a generic working capital pitch does not work. The value-added industry specialists are the new breed of cash advance salesmen who will thrive in the new era.

I've thrown away my UCC lists and am retooling my marketing around the specialist approach. So far I like what I see.

[fma123]

MCNetwork...great stuff! Thanks for keeping it real! The piker brokers will fade out. Real salesmen will find a way to stay in the game and find their niche. Let the former stockbrokers, ex-mortgage brokers who are just trying to get the quick sale fade out because they will. The real players will find their own way.

The industry does not need regulation to clean up. The marketplace itself will clean this industry up becuase only the real honest salesman will be able to last. The bad apples can't last in this current marketplace. Shady brokers can't sell and don't understand the concept of true value. Find your blue ocean strategies my peeps if you want to last in this game otherwise you better leave now becuase you're an idiot if you think this industry isn't changing.

[jotucker1983]

I've worked for a very visible medium sized business in an unrelated field since I exited MCA last year and I haven't received one single live cold call from anyone offering working capital. Not ONE. There are obviously untouched business out there to this day, yet brokers keep pounding UCC lists and the same databases that have been passed around like a joint. No need to wonder why some brokers are seeing nothing but merchants stacked to the hilt.

That being said, I have no love for MCA or equipment finance anymore. I'll do a deal if it falls into my lap, but judging by market conditions and availability of capital, that isn't bound to happen anytime soon.

FUNd is back!

[dpFund]

The way to approach virgin businesses is that you have to attack a specific vertical and have a proven solution to offer them. You have to brand yourself as a financing expert who truly understands their industry. You have to really build a relationship and illustrate the value you can bring him. This is called value based selling. You're no longer just looking for distressed merchants. You're looking for healthy merchants that want to make more money. Now you have to actually sell instead of just being an order taker. This takes more sophisticated sales skills than a typical UCC list humper can offer. You can get rich just becoming an expert in one vertical. There's no need to try to sell cash advances to every SIC code under the sun. The shotgun cold call, jack of all trades master of none approach with a generic working capital pitch does not work. The value-added industry specialists are the new breed of cash advance salesmen who will thrive in the new era.

I've thrown away my UCC lists and am retooling my marketing around the specialist approach. So far I like what I see.[/QUOTE]

Archie, you nailed it. I've been a business development specialist for 30 years and have entered/conquered numerous vertical industries by employing the same strategies you outline above. Smart people on this forum should heed your advice.

We launched FSP in 2008 with our own unique business proposition and still get 100% of our business by referral. Even in this tough market we are thriving...by listening and adapting.

- Dan Page

[WestCoastFunding]

At one point or another nearly every company looks for some sort of debt financing. 90% (or more) don't want anything to do with a cash advance, nor should they, as most can qualify for better-rate financing. Yet so few brokers look to service that 90% market.

Just seems like more and more brokers fighting over a smaller portion of market share, rather than focus on more conventional business lending. Yeah, you'll end up seeing commissions between 1-3 points, but 1-3% of a $5M commercial real estate refinance is real money. And sometimes when your working on the larger conventional deals, the company's owner may say "I need $250K immediately, do you have have any immediate options?" Yes. Yes I do.

[Karen37a]

I am not going to poke holes into some of the pitch because I like you , its better than the straight on theory** But everyone is saying that so It doesn't work effectively.Its not that simple.When it does work ever so slightly you are dialing for dollars with massive calls,limited results with a lot of hangups, take me off your lists and can you guys just stop calling me.

As Far as Business money is concerned West Coast finally said something that was true...90% of business's look for debt financing.

Missing another key ingredient though.

[Karen37a]

(Standing on stage for west coast cause he loves it so much, grabbing the mic )

The American Dream of owning a business and being independent could almost be lost in the shuffle of the worker bee mentality, technology replacing jobs, a dwindling economy and lack of cash flow ( other things as well). Is this what people were born to do?...work 9-5 for a boss having a J>O>B , just over broke, pay taxes and die.
The reality is American business find it harder to plan for unforeseen expenses, 4 out of 10 have reported problems with reducing operating costs. 20 % of business's report that they have thought about shutting down to help evade the stress and the cash flow crunch. Because of this cash flow crunch they hold off on expansion plans, hiring etc .
Small to Mid size business's have been blocked access to the # 1 thing needed for business sustainability and growth...Cash. And why? Excessive lending guidelines and restrictions placed on banks. Cash Advances while it should not be your first choice ( if you have alternate means of financing ) are another source of much needed cash flow
Business owners tend to have lower credit scores then some joe blow with a J.O.B. because of additional hits on their personal credit for business reasons and non guaranteed fluctuating incomes....(I can go on but I wont)

******The Reason people will do business with some of us over a pencil pushing, cant think out of the box type is We do not think cash advances are only for people with lower credit scores who are unsophisticated. And I do not unconsciously insult them. A few of you bring your banking type,accountant , job mentality to the salespeoples table . THATS why I say the things I do , not to save me and my 160 I.Q. but to defend American Business People the Cash Advance industry and Salespeople. Also protect merchants ability to have access to much needed cash when they cant go to the bank thru alternative financing ( and make money doing it) ******

You miss the # 1 reason why sales are down for some. Some of you do not believe in the product or yourselves as evidenced by the disdain for the industry and the lowering of commissions to an Negative ROR. You all complain about Amex but then you never take into account that maybe the industry isnt going away 100% but other players are in the game so it takes market share away from the original heavy hitters and brokers. Also $$$. credit lines , investors and backers, where does the money come from?When you have a big shake out with people yelling regulation from inside the industry. You scare people away.

Self fulfilling prophesy

Anyone who has the courage to open up a business or be a Sales person or Financial Services professional and reach for the stars and break the mold of a 9-5 should never be called "unsophisticated" no matter the outcome.

All factors must be considered when coming to logical decisions on why something is working or not working.Instead of wall of words, we call it Wall of Wisdom. The people who know are making money not typing rebuttals all day...I cant respond going off to fly with the Eagles.

[jotucker1983]

Anyone who has the courage to open up a business or be a Sales person or Financial Services professional and reach for the stars and break the mold of a 9-5 should never be called "unsophisticated" no matter the outcome.

Lol, Karen listen, it is what it is.

Like West stated, there is rarely any business out there that doesn't need "capital", but 90% of those businesses won't even sniff at an MCA......I don't care what "pitch" you use, nor what "SIC Code" you target, nor how many Law of Attraction tapes you listen to, nor how much Tom Hopkins sales material you regurgitate lol.

The fact of the matter is that the product is expensive as all hell, with an extremely quick payback cycle, and this will never appeal to nothing but a small fraction (no more than 10%) of business owners out there.

Karen correct me if I'm wrong, but you've been selling this product for 2 years, right? I've been selling MCAs specifically since November 2009 (7.5 years). I know what I'm talking about.

[WestCoastFunding]

THATS why I say the things I do , not to save me and my 160 I.Q. but to defend American Business People ...

Lol

[Karen37a]

Like West stated, there is rarely any business out there that doesn't need "capital", but 90% of those businesses won't even sniff at an MCA......I don't care what "pitch" you use, nor what "SIC Code" you target, nor how many Law of Attraction tapes you listen to, nor how much Tom Hopkins sales material you regurgitate lol.

No one said 90% of business owners would ALL want MCA advances, only an idiot would try to use that exaggeration in an argument. I do not like your style of debating or argument taking one word , twisting it out of context then basing your whole argument on the One word you purposefully twisted out of context ., then a friend of yours says...right on man.They need money. Now its our job to find the ones who the product could be a good fit for and convince them to do business with us and not our competitors.If you cant do it more opportunities for me.

And yes selling Cash Advances for 2 years. (I use to close 5- 7 deals a month working for someone at first, doing it my way dialing 7-50 dials a day and being yelled at.) ..But as far as me being in Financial Services.I started raising money in a Venture Capital Firm on Wall st back in the late 80's as a stockbroker. Then owned a small independent Stock brokerage firm with a few guys that left a firm with me . Left right before the dot com crash. Then went on open a company that cross sold Mortgages /Insurance and Mutual Funds in the form of a written Financial Game plan... I raised 30 million as a rookie broker on Wall st.But you know this already. Am I bragging?.. you asked.

John now correct me if I am wrong. I thought you said publicly on these boards that you left the industry full time and would just be spare time renewing the few clients that you had left?You said the avg broker makes 30k a year and you charge 1% or 2%. Thats almost some peoples car payment, or maybe after taxes and expenses it is.
If people want to keep spinning their wheels and not look for or learn a more efficient way to get leads in or clients and skewing data so be it.All you do and did is make me not want to help people especially for free.Everyone has reasons for coming on these boards. Mine was to make money. I hope one day you figure it out on your own. Odds are against it you will never see a positive way to be profitable in this "re-created" industry hence you leaving.

The DF really does not have to watch this daily/weekly, and its wasting my time . See you in a few weeks.

[jotucker1983]

No one said 90% of business owners would ALL want MCA advances, only an idiot would try to use that exaggeration in an argument.

Lol, nobody said that you specifically mentioned that 90% of business owners would want an MCA. I was just sharing this information with you because you seem to operate based on cartoonish Law Of Attraction methodologies for "success", rather than actual business fundamentals. Case in point:

You miss the # 1 reason why sales are down for some. Some of you do not believe in the product or yourselves.......

Look at how cartoonish this sounds? So apparently, by discussing the realities of current industy affairs, this means one is being too negative? And so, I guess now those negative thoughts are doing what the Law of Attraction states....which are vibrating at certain "frequencies" creating negative events/outcomes such as higher marketing regulations, higher marketing costs, UCCs no longer working, Aged Leads not working, lower conversion rates, back-door deals, etc., etc., etc.?

If we would all just shut up, think extremely positive, and believeeeeeeeeee, it will all work out. Right?

The Reason people will do business with some of us over a pencil pushing, cant think out of the box type.......

And who exactly is this pencil pushing, can't think out of the box type, who you keep stealing "so much" business from lol?

A few of you bring your banking type,accountant , job mentality to the salespeoples table....THATS why I say the things I do , not to save me and my 160 I.Q.

Let's see, we are in a Commercial Finance sales position, but Karen doesn't believe you should bring any prior accounting, finance, nor banking experience to the table?

And you never seem to pass up the opportunity to validate yourself. Before it was your over the top, amazing, walk on water "sales skills", now you have a 160 I.Q.

If you are that damn good, you don't have to brag about it so much Karen....it will show.

You said you've been in "sales" for damn near 30 years (which is almost as long as I've been alive), why do you feel the need to validate yourself so often lol?

[jotucker1983]

John now correct me if I am wrong. I thought you said publicly on these boards that you left the industry full time and would just be spare time renewing the few clients that you had left?

No, that's not what I said and quite frankly, I'm NOT explaining it to you again. I have literally explained it to you at least 9 times already, across three different threads. So you might as well just drop it Karen lol.

[Karen37a]

Karen correct me if I'm wrong, but you've been selling this product for 2 years, right?

You asked me as usual. So I answered as usual. Then you say I brag or validate myself.. Why do you keep asking then?


Then people ask you about your job

sales is sales.. 10 phone calls for me to get to the yes..

Ps. I do have that I.Q and I told you it to get your goat. What on earth would you ever do if someone had a very high IQ, graduated College, but was good in MCA sales.....punches holes in the pinky ring theory

Anyway . Happy Easter

[jotucker1983]

Anyway . Happy Easter

Happy Easter!!

[GSilverman]

Jo You are being too nice to this newbee. By any real measurement metric, Direct Debit Funding Products have seen their heyday. The business isn't going to go away, but shakeout and consolidation is here. Only a select handful and the smart will be able to cover new client acqusition costs.

[WestCoastFunding]

But as far as me being in Financial Services.I started raising money in a Venture Capital Firm on Wall st back in the late 80's as a stockbroker. Then owned a small independent Stock brokerage firm with a few guys that left a firm with me . Left right before the dot com crash. Then went on open a company that cross sold Mortgages /Insurance and Mutual Funds in the form of a written Financial Game plan... I raised 30 million as a rookie broker on Wall st.But you know this already. Am I bragging?.. you asked.

So basically, the shorter version is: you failed as a stock broker, and then failed selling reverse mortgages. All while declaring yourself a master salesperson? Really nothing to brag about.

Whats the natural progression after selling reverse mortgages and MCAs? Auto title loans?

[Matrix1]

Practically every single one of my sales this off the dialer. Yes I have my renewals, yes I have a pipeline however majority of my sales are directly from the dialer. From the gatekeeper to the merchant himself. I started as a stockbroker I was very successful at that. **** happens, I never got in the mortgages but came straight to MCA after. After 20 years I still get that euphoric just before I pick the phone up.
How long will that last I have no idea. But I will continue to take advantage of it as long as it does.