[skideeppow]

I had this guy cold call me, gave me a great song and dance about lead gen, said they would generate the leads organically from landing pages, SEO and social media. I paid with a CC, so i was like, what the hell, it sounds like a good deal.

Well, i get 5 leads in two days. They are all generated through a domestic call center. I specifically ask each lead, "how did you inquire with us?" Their answer, they didnt, They were contacted via outbound call.

Anyway, i told the guy, credit the card back or i am going to charge it back. Totally lied to me about how they were generated.

Anyway, just needed to vent.

[MCNetwork]

That's pretty much how all the lead gen vendors work.

[skideeppow]

That's pretty much how all the lead gen vendors work.

yeah i guess i thought this was different. Back to direct mail i guess.

[MCNetwork]

I gave up on direct mail years ago. Too many people calling in asking if they could use the promotional credit card to buy gas.

[ridextreme]

I gave up on direct mail years ago. Too many people calling in asking if they could use the promotional credit card to buy gas.

the answer is yes, of course you can. Why kill the deal right there?

I wire the money into your account, and you do whatever you want with it.

[MCNetwork]

Yeah but it's hard to make that pitch when they're at the pump...

[ARFTC]

I couldn't agree with you more. We have tried 4 different "lead generators" and we are now working on our 5th. I recently had one of our lenders tell me that they have seen some of these leads / applications 4-6 times during the same week or month and that it was their opinion that many of these vendors are just recycling many of these leads. In other words... a "warm lead" becomes an "aged lead" and then that "aged lead" is some how brought back to a "warm lead" status. Frankly, I don't trust any of these vendors any more. We are done with them... time to increase our own calling desk staff and investment. That is the only lead that I can trust any more.

Times have changed...

[MCNetwork]

These lead gen companies follow the same formula:

1. Promote your leads as coming from inbound inquiries generated from proprietary internet SEO (also known as the Holy Grail of lead gen), trigger leads, radio, mailers, pay per click and other legitimate sounding marketing campaigns. Charge $20-$25 per live transfer.

2. Take a $500-$1000 deposit. This is used to hire a handful of call center agents in latin America, India or the Philippines where the cost of labor is extremely low.

3. Feed these agents UCC lists and have the agents hammer them relentlessly. Since other ISO shops call the same lists, you'll see the same beat up merchants submitting the same paperwork all over the place.

4. The lead gen company makes the spread between the $25 lead transfer and the cost to outsource telemarketers. In the Philippines, for example, you can hire a good telemarketer for about $2-$3 per hour. As long as he can generate 2-3 live transfers per day it's a very profitable transaction for the lead vendor.

5. Rinse and repeat. Keep scaling up and land new ISO accounts and hire more call center agents. All the older live transfer leads are collected and resold to other ISOs as aged leads for $3-$10 per name. The same data can be resold a hundred times.

It"s a pretty good racket. Similar to the Gold Rush, the people making the real money in the MCA industry are the ones selling shovels and picks to the miners (i.e, leads, software solutions and other MCA ancillary services). Many newer ISOs are always looking out for the Holy Grail of leads so they easily fall for the sales pitch. They burn through a lot of money before learning that there are no shortcuts in this business. ARFTC is already on his fifth source. Don't sign up for a sixth!

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

[Michael I]

If they will come at 100 a lead I may have fell for it. When you know how much it cost to get in a ppc lead,you will know that 20-30 Is impossible unless it's a scam or being resold a hundred times

[Cambridge]

If they will come at 100 a lead I may have fell for it. When you know how much it cost to get in a ppc lead,you will know that 20-30 Is impossible unless it's a scam or being resold a hundred times

Listen to Michael. He cuts throats and cuts solid deals to get leads. The guy is a boss!

[Valentine]

I had this guy cold call me, gave me a great song and dance about lead gen, said they would generate the leads organically from landing pages, SEO and social media. I paid with a CC, so i was like, what the hell, it sounds like a good deal.

Well, i get 5 leads in two days. They are all generated through a domestic call center. I specifically ask each lead, "how did you inquire with us?" Their answer, they didnt, They were contacted via outbound call.

Anyway, i told the guy, credit the card back or i am going to charge it back. Totally lied to me about how they were generated.

Anyway, just needed to vent.

Is it the fact that he lied to you about the source? Or are the leads generated 'organically from landing pages, SEO and social media' worth more? I ask because I have always generated my own leads via "organically from landing pages, SEO and social media" and have never paid for any type of lead including ucc's. If you give me some time I could generate a real campaign for anyone interested.

Generally what are they worth? My own experience says the more information ( fields) the more expensive. I currently just get a name,number and email and sift through the start ups.
Its perfect timing for me I am switching gears and would have been contacting you guys about either a partner or someone to purchase the leads out right.

Anyone interested should know in advance this arrangement will begin mid May and the results will vary depending on your parameters. The less information requested the more sign ups.

I didnt mean to hijack the thread.

[Karen37a]

Lead Generation from outside sources or Seo almost always doesn't work.And if it does, its so minimal that it doesn't cover the costs.

In all my travels I think I know of one or two legitimate companies but they will sell it to 4 companies simultaneously then regenerate the lead after 14 days.( and they disclose this ) Its just a glorified UCC with the hope of someone needing immediate financing.

Most of these guys make you pay thru click bank or something that cant charge back.....good thing It can still be charged back.

[jotucker1983]

Lead Generation from outside sources or Seo almost always doesn't work.And if it does, its so minimal that it doesn't cover the costs.

In all my travels I think I know of one or two legitimate companies but they will sell it to 4 companies simultaneously then regenerate the lead after 14 days.( and they disclose this ) Its just a glorified UCC with the hope of someone needing immediate financing.

Most of these guys make you pay thru click bank or something that cant charge back.....good thing It can still be charged back.

Now me and Karen agree on something !

Yes, there's no such thing as "lead generation" because the entire concept doesn't make any sense. 95% of the "work" in this space is the generation of a truly qualified lead, which is:

- A merchant that fits all generic qualifications

- A merchant that is interested in an MCA, with a real need for alternative financing

- A merchant that is pre-qualified and thus, would get an estimated approval upon submission

That's 95% of the work, the rest of it is making sure you have an efficient Funder/Lender Network, are properly pricing the merchant based on his Paper Grade, and have an excellent "quality" process in place in terms of offering better support, better reload/renewal processes, and more to round out the Total Solution.

So you mean to tell me a "lead generation guy" has done all of this and is going to hand me over this "exclusive" lead for 20 bucks lol? He would be the worse business man in history, because many Funders/Lenders will accept anybody with a pulse to resell their products, so why doesn't the "lead generation guy" close the deal himself?

Oh, because it's not really a lead! It's a data record of a merchant that might be interested and who might qualify, that the "lead generation guy" is going to sell to me for $20 (well above the actual true cost of said record which should be 10 cents - $1.00) and sell it to 10 other guys making $200 off of it.

[Valentine]

Now me and Karen agree on something !

Yes, there's no such thing as "lead generation" because the entire concept doesn't make any sense. 95% of the "work" in this space is the generation of a truly qualified lead, which is:

- A merchant that fits all generic qualifications

- A merchant that is interested in an MCA, with a real need for alternative financing

- A merchant that is pre-qualified and thus, would get an estimated approval upon submission

That's 95% of the work, the rest of it is making sure you have an efficient Funder/Lender Network, are properly pricing the merchant based on his Paper Grade, and have an excellent "quality" process in place in terms of offering better support, better reload/renewal processes, and more to round out the Total Solution.

So you mean to tell me a "lead generation guy" has done all of this and is going to hand me over this "exclusive" lead for 20 bucks lol? He would be the worse business man in history, because many Funders/Lenders will accept anybody with a pulse to resell their products, so why doesn't the "lead generation guy" close the deal himself?

Oh, because it's not really a lead! It's a data record of a merchant that might be interested and who might qualify, that the "lead generation guy" is going to sell to me for $20 (well above the actual true cost of said record which should be 10 cents - $1.00) and sell it to 10 other guys making $200 off of it.

Now I understand . If a lead guy is going to roll it and light it he should smoke it too . I agree.
The only lead I would be willing to sell is the lead created by a merchant who signed up for an apply now online ad. At the same time not everyone is overcome by the urge to gamble that newly qualified lead within the system of double dealing cut throating that exists within this space.
I will provide real time sign ups of merchants looking for funding , that's it. I have been working in this space for about 5 years, 2 for others and 3 for myself and I prefer a/b testing landing pages and developing marketing material over outwitting shadie lending organizations and rogue employees ( though I could write a book on it).



The big players in this space pay handsomely for ads and drive up the costs for everyone. A good "lead generator" seems like a good seat to be in. There is a difference between sales and marketing and I think the expectations when it comes to lead generation is a little skewed. Also I am sure there are some shadie guys trying to take advantage. It's the nature of the marketplace.

[RickyR3712]

The other big issue is when you do some serious underwriting you will see that half these lead providers are iso. They are cherry picking and selling off the 10k or the ones that are looking for something they can not do etc.

[Valentine]

The other big issue is when you do some serious underwriting you will see that half these lead providers are iso. They are cherry picking and selling off the 10k or the ones that are looking for something they can not do etc.

That would be a natural temptation. There are ways to ensure the client is the only person with access to the full contact data. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[WestCoastFunding]

That would be a natural temptation. There are ways to ensure the client is the only person with access to the full contact data. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

How do you ensure that?

[Valentine]

How do you ensure that?

Well if you think about it any email marketing platform can be set to forward leads to any email address you set it to. Also the same thing can apply to a specific crm. The lead gen can just get a generic receipt of a sign up without access to the full data.
Wallah exclusive lead.
Am I making sense?

[Enablement Data]

It's sad to hear/see all these responses about lead gen.

I was in the industry doing cold calling sales and running teams for over five years. I went back to school and got my masters in mathematics and now work in data science (the real type of lead gen).

My partner and I have been providing leads to a few companies, that we can handle the unique volume, for about six months now. Not only that but also consulting services (as in getting on the phone with your lead providers and "scaring" them into thinking you have someone in-house that knows their tricks).

What I've come to realize is that each one of these lead generators are just sketchy sales people doing the same bull**** to each company. Most of them are in their 40s or plus and don't even know what they're saying/selling.