[mcaguru]

http://debanked.com/2014/08/ifa-tell...s-to-get-lost/

[J.Celifarco]

http://debanked.com/2014/08/ifa-tell...s-to-get-lost/

that has absolutely nothing to do with you making a merchant breach his contract when you stack on his first position. Nothing at all. Yes factoring companies hate our industry everybody from A funders all the way down to you, this has nothing to do with what I or the other people on this thread have said.. For clarification see picture posted above.

[mcaguru]

Again, Carl was taking a shot at the companies that do higher risk funding, and all i can picture in my mind at the moment was the Factoring people pointing a finger on how the A paper lenders are interfering with their structures. I found another piece online from a factoring company's attorney knocking MCA (A paper) but since i don't pee in our well (Like they say in Texas) i wont post it.

[Michael I]

Again, Carl was taking a shot at the companies that do higher risk funding, and all i can picture in my mind at the moment was the Factoring people pointing a finger on how the A paper lenders are interfering with their structures. I found another piece online from a factoring company's attorney knocking MCA (A paper) but since i don't pee in our well i wont post it.

john come on dont you know that 2 wrongs make a right . lol

[J.Celifarco]

john come on dont you know that 2 wrongs make a right . lol

Factoring companies dont like us but legally we do nothing wrong.. Obviously that is exactly the same as stacking I dont know how I couldn't see that<~~~~~ EXTREME SARCASM

And Marcus to go further most A paper funders now ask to see a copy of a merchants factoring contract as a closing stip prior to funding to make sure that they are not breaching the contract the merchant has in place. I have had to get this on a number of deals where there was a factoring deal seen in the bank statements. So the A paper banks are taking the necessary steps to make sure they dont breach existing agreements

[mcaguru]

lets work hard and chat Later

[J.Celifarco]

lets work hard and chat Later

I think there is a middle ground between the 2 extremes that you propose.. There is plenty of money to be made in this industry and you dont have to give 3rd-5th position programs that hurt merchants more then help to do it.. and I also never said anything about cheap capital. I highly doubt many people on here makes a living selling ONLY cheap money, thats not the industry but again there is a difference between selling expensive money and being predatory

[Funder Mark]

lets work hard and chat Later

It will have to be much later, finally putting you on ignore status.

[mcaguru]

It will have to be much later, finally putting you on ignore status.

can i send you lunch today ?

[jotucker1983]

I normally don't do 3rd positions but merchant insists as he has immediate need for upcoming trade show. I don't think I can get him what he wants, but I'm doing my due diligence and throwing it out here.

Notes:


He's looking for $35k loan for 7 months payback $43k, dailies around $290-300.

• Recent advance with On Deck $50k. 9 months left
• Recent advance with Rapid $40k. 12 months left
• Credit 650


Merchant does about $60k per month. in business 4 years. Medical equipment business.

Is this doable anywhere?

Merchant's expectations along with his ability to calculate what these 3 daily payments would end up doing to his cashflow, are both out of whack.

- Number one, he's not getting $35,000 with a 1.23 factor for a 7 month term on a 3rd position. Not happening.

- Number two, a 3rd position stack is going to do nothing but start taking too much of his gross sales leading to NSFs/Overdrafts through the roof.

- You need to explain that to the merchant along with showing him how a 3rd position would likely lead to about 30% - 40% of his monthly gross going solely to payback these 3 stacks. Tell him that once he pays down On Deck and Rapid to a particular percentage, you will look at doing a 1st position pay-off/refinance.

- I would take the ethical road by telling your merchant you don't feel comfortable doing any 3rd position stack as you know it will harm his cashflow, on top of that, you don't want to violate any legal provisions that you might have setup with either On Deck or Rapid in relation to stacking (which are not allowed).

Now, after all of that, if the merchant gets pissed off and decides to call a competitor at Piggy Back Capital or Stacks Are Us for a 3rd position, then hell, let him go. He will be calling you back by December talking about how his cashflow is now screwed up because he can't afford 30% of his gross going to payback these 3 deals, and how you were "right all along".

But if I were you, I would take the high road/ethical route and not do a 3rd position. He can't afford it.

[mcaguru]

Merchant's expectations along with his ability to calculate what these 3 daily payments would end up doing to his cashflow, are both out of whack.

- Number one, he's not getting $35,000 with a 1.23 factor for a 7 month term on a 3rd position. Not happening.

- Number two, a 3rd position stack is going to do nothing but start taking too much of his gross sales leading to NSFs/Overdrafts through the roof.

- You need to explain that to the merchant along with showing him how a 3rd position would likely lead to about 30% - 40% of his monthly gross going solely to payback these 3 stacks. Tell him that once he pays down On Deck and Rapid to a particular percentage, you will look at doing a 1st position pay-off/refinance.

- I would take the ethical road by telling your merchant you don't feel comfortable doing any 3rd position stack as you know it will harm his cashflow, on top of that, you don't want to violate any legal provisions that you might have setup with either On Deck or Rapid in relation to stacking (which are not allowed).

Now, after all of that, if the merchant gets pissed off and decides to call a competitor at Piggy Back Capital or Stacks Are Us for a 3rd position, then hell, let him go. He will be calling you back by December talking about how his cashflow is now screwed up because he can't afford 30% of his gross going to payback these 3 deals, and how you were "right all along".

But if I were you, I would take the high road/ethical route and not do a 3rd position. He can't afford it.

John you are correct. We decline files all the time for not having the ability to handle a funding.

[J.Celifarco]

John you are correct. We decline files all the time for not having the ability to handle a funding.

what % of total deposits do you think a merchant can handle for payments

[mcaguru]

what % of total deposits do you think a merchant can handle for payments

I am no underwriter. I would imagine a fuel station would not get same offer like a home based consultant that helps schools get grants that's main hard costs would be his time and knowledge.

Yep we fund those scenarios, fast offers / fewest stips / funds moments after contracts back-in.

[J.Celifarco]

I am no underwriter. I would imagine a fuel station would not get same offer like a home based consultant that helps schools get grants that's main hard costs would be his time and knowledge.

so you dont know is what you are saying..

[mcaguru]

so you dont know is what you are saying..

Correct.

[Cfairbank]

Again, Carl was taking a shot at the companies that do higher risk funding, and all i can picture in my mind at the moment was the Factoring people pointing a finger on how the A paper lenders are interfering with their structures. I found another piece online from a factoring company's attorney knocking MCA (A paper) but since i don't pee in our well (Like they say in Texas) i wont post it.

Hold on, Marcus - this whole conversation began in response to your statement that Jeremy should be more focused on the "other Rapids" instead of the stackers, and I provided a pretty clear, mathematical example as to WHY the vast majority of the stacks in the space are so damaging to both the merchant and the security of the first position lender's capital. It is true that the vast majority of the stacked products are predatory, but that doesn't have to be the case; it is actually possible to create a consumer or business loan (or other type of financial alternative such as a cash advance) for a higher risk / sub-prime merchant without creating a debt trap or offering completely untenable rates/terms. But that's not what happens, and the whole concept of "risk-based pricing" in the high risk stacking space is a complete farce; it's priced on a pool performance basis. and typically up-sold as high as humanly possible. And the stackers aren't just crushing businesses; they are raising defaults and the cost of capital across the space.

And I still am looking for ANY high risk/stacking company to answer this simple question: how do you support a product featuring a 600% cost of capital as a sustainable solution for a business since you are constantly driving the merchant to renew and double dip? Give it to them once and walk away? No problem, but that's not what happens. I am genuinely curious, and would love to hear any explanation. I've tried hard to understand it, but the pesky laws of math just keep getting in the way.

[AdvanceFund]

I normally don't do 3rd positions but merchant insists as he has immediate need for upcoming trade show. I don't think I can get him what he wants, but I'm doing my due diligence and throwing it out here.

Notes:


He's looking for $35k loan for 7 months payback $43k, dailies around $290-300.

• Recent advance with On Deck $50k. 9 months left
• Recent advance with Rapid $40k. 12 months left
• Credit 650


Merchant does about $60k per month. in business 4 years. Medical equipment business.

Is this doable anywhere?

This is exactly what we specialize in. I see you have a lot of offers on this thread. Feel free to reach out to me if you'd like. I will probably be the most competitive on this type of advance.

[LJH365]

Merchant's expectations along with his ability to calculate what these 3 daily payments would end up doing to his cashflow, are both out of whack.

- Number one, he's not getting $35,000 with a 1.23 factor for a 7 month term on a 3rd position. Not happening.

- Number two, a 3rd position stack is going to do nothing but start taking too much of his gross sales leading to NSFs/Overdrafts through the roof.

- You need to explain that to the merchant along with showing him how a 3rd position would likely lead to about 30% - 40% of his monthly gross going solely to payback these 3 stacks. Tell him that once he pays down On Deck and Rapid to a particular percentage, you will look at doing a 1st position pay-off/refinance.

- I would take the ethical road by telling your merchant you don't feel comfortable doing any 3rd position stack as you know it will harm his cashflow, on top of that, you don't want to violate any legal provisions that you might have setup with either On Deck or Rapid in relation to stacking (which are not allowed).

Now, after all of that, if the merchant gets pissed off and decides to call a competitor at Piggy Back Capital or Stacks Are Us for a 3rd position, then hell, let him go. He will be calling you back by December talking about how his cashflow is now screwed up because he can't afford 30% of his gross going to payback these 3 deals, and how you were "right all along".

But if I were you, I would take the high road/ethical route and not do a 3rd position. He can't afford it.

Indeed John thanks. I did just that. Thank you for your insight. Merchant was really pushing me to probably sales from an upcoming trade show, but "probably" is the operative word.

[gail_waters]

Ok so companies like empire and cresthill are awesome with coming through with 3rd position approvals but at the same time your looking for a 1.22, which they'll give you at least a 1.45, only companies you can possibly get a 1.22 from are second positions that would have to pay one of the advances off, e-mail me at gail@franklinmerchantcapital.com.

I normally don't do 3rd positions but merchant insists as he has immediate need for upcoming trade show. I don't think I can get him what he wants, but I'm doing my due diligence and throwing it out here.

Notes:


He's looking for $35k loan for 7 months payback $43k, dailies around $290-300.

• Recent advance with On Deck $50k. 9 months left
• Recent advance with Rapid $40k. 12 months left
• Credit 650


Merchant does about $60k per month. in business 4 years. Medical equipment business.

Is this doable anywhere?