[aak723]

Hello everyone:

I'm a funder and have been in the industry for a number of years. Without any marketing, I consistently do between $50-$75,000 of funded deals every month. These deals come to me from a network of referring brokers, CPAs, and the like. Thus they are easily converted into deals.

I tried to launch my own outbound campaigns for new business but haven't gotten the results I'm looking for. Of course, I've tried multiple sources for leads (all websites that are well discussed on this forum). But to be honest my conversion rates just aren't that high, or they're not as high I'd like them to be. My results are the same regardless of whether who I've chosen to provide leads.

Example -- recently I launched a campaign focused on businesses that have been around for 1 year or more that did at least $100K in revenue last year with 500 credit or above. I received 32 leads so far. Here are my stats:

8 refunded leads (no contact information or no money) 25%
10 no answers 31% (30+ call attempts over 3 days with emails)
2 not interested 6.2%
5 that never sent in signed paperwork and then went silent (15%)
7 apps generated - 22%


Out of the apps generated:

1 had a pre-existing default that nullified him from lenders
2 that didn't qualify due to terrible credit and/or industry type (and yes I took them to all the vultures)
1 app that got terms from lenders but didn't take because he didn't want the high interest
2 that funded
1 app that's still waiting for responses from lenders

Average deal size was $6000 (which is nothing). I barely made money back on these leads and terminated my relationship with a provider who is touted well on this board. Perhaps a case can be made that I got out too early, or that I got a bad batch. But I haven't had much luck beyond these dismal results pay per lead campaigns in general. This is just a recent example.

I'm about to try live transfers. I've never done that before. Should I anticipate better results? Is my method broken? What can I correct?

[quartz11]

Live transfers are tough if your talking about press 1 we just got through a round of 250 with only 6% good calls if your doing it alone I wouldn't recommend it you will be in DNC HELL! Haha

[aak723]

Live transfers are tough if your talking about press 1 we just got through a round of 250 with only 6% good calls if your doing it alone I wouldn't recommend it you will be in DNC HELL! Haha

Those are robodial/call broadcast campaigns. 6% good calls is a decent number if you're doing UCC 1 calls. Your app conversion rate should be high if data is good. I had a trick to convert these that worked well but it's best if you're actually doing the outbound calls yourself instead of the push 1.

I'm talking about buying live call ins from TV ads and infomercials.

[DirectMedia_Scott]

Hello everyone:

I'm a funder and have been in the industry for a number of years. Without any marketing, I consistently do between $50-$75,000 of funded deals every month. These deals come to me from a network of referring brokers, CPAs, and the like. Thus they are easily converted into deals.

I tried to launch my own outbound campaigns for new business but haven't gotten the results I'm looking for. Of course, I've tried multiple sources for leads (all websites that are well discussed on this forum). But to be honest my conversion rates just aren't that high, or they're not as high I'd like them to be. My results are the same regardless of whether who I've chosen to provide leads.

Example -- recently I launched a campaign focused on businesses that have been around for 1 year or more that did at least $100K in revenue last year with 500 credit or above. I received 32 leads so far. Here are my stats:

8 refunded leads (no contact information or no money) 25%
10 no answers 31% (30+ call attempts over 3 days with emails)
2 not interested 6.2%
5 that never sent in signed paperwork and then went silent (15%)
7 apps generated - 22%


Out of the apps generated:

1 had a pre-existing default that nullified him from lenders
2 that didn't qualify due to terrible credit and/or industry type (and yes I took them to all the vultures)
1 app that got terms from lenders but didn't take because he didn't want the high interest
2 that funded
1 app that's still waiting for responses from lenders

Average deal size was $6000 (which is nothing). I barely made money back on these leads and terminated my relationship with a provider who is touted well on this board. Perhaps a case can be made that I got out too early, or that I got a bad batch. But I haven't had much luck beyond these dismal results pay per lead campaigns in general. This is just a recent example.

I'm about to try live transfers. I've never done that before. Should I anticipate better results? Is my method broken? What can I correct?

We'll for starters, funding 2 deals out of 32 leads, isn't really horrible. That said, the average deal size is what killed it. I think it's fair to assume that if each of those deals were for 25k, you'd probably be pretty happy.

My company offers live inbound callers from the radio. Each inbound caller is exclusive and comes to you in real time. We convert higher than direct mail, and much much higher than press 1's.

Regardless of the avenue you choose to try next, it's wise to realize that you will ultimately have to sort through some riff raff to get a good application that you can fund.

The two main questions you have to ask your self when evaluating a lead source are as follows. 1. Did I make my money back, and keep a decent cost per acquisition? 2. Can I scale this lead source to higher volumes to bring in more income?

If the answer after a test is yes to both of these questions, you'll find your self a winner.

[aak723]

We'll for starters, funding 2 deals out of 32 leads, isn't really horrible. That said, the average deal size is what killed it. I think it's fair to assume that if each of those deals were for 25k, you'd probably be pretty happy.

My company offers live inbound callers from the radio. Each inbound caller is exclusive and comes to you in real time. We convert higher than direct mail, and much much higher than press 1's.

Regardless of the avenue you choose to try next, it's wise to realize that you will ultimately have to sort through some riff raff to get a good application that you can fund.

The two main questions you have to ask your self when evaluating a lead source are as follows. 1. Did I make my money back, and keep a decent cost per acquisition? 2. Can I scale this lead source to higher volumes to bring in more income?

If the answer after a test is yes to both of these questions, you'll find your self a winner.

Scott -- thanks for replying. I'm getting a lot of replies from lead sellers. Please don't mind me saying this but the only ones who consistently got rich during the gold rush were the people sold prospectors the shovels. I respect your opinion of course but need to scale down my expectations.

First, 2 out of 32 deals isn't scalable. Even at $25,000 average deal size, with a 5% commission the ROM is just over 2.5X. We took in 7 apps but converted only 2 of them. That's also a problem.

Is this standard for the industry as a whole? In order to create a $20K- $30K sustainable monthly GROSS income, I have to put in $10-$15K of marketing? Build in a sales force, cost of processors, and overhead, and I'm not seeing how a broker is coming out with more than 10% net profit or breaking even converting just 6.2%.

This can't be right. And frankly I know the data is aged only 3 weeks. Does anyone out there have any data on what the total conversion on these leads looks like after 30/60/90 days? Perhaps have a live xfer system such as Scott's with combined with a broadcast on all dead leads and n/a's during off peak times??

Is there a formula that's working well for some of you?

[Ryan Shiroky]

powerdial UCC leads, get aged lendio leads, do a little direct mail and press 1, put together a decent site with a little bit of SEO and get yourself on every social media outlet there is... I know a few broker shops that simple powerdial and advertise on the internet a little bit and make a KILLING...

[halasniks]

we used a lead generation company recently that sent out letter with fake check. Guaranteed 100 leads. We did no deals. It was terrible. Callers were pissed because many thought check was real and we got a ton of calls from very small businesses. we told direct mail company we wanted at least $300,000 in yearly sales and they conveniently forgot that part. We could wait for it to end.

We did expect people to think check was real and it sucked answering the calk when people thought you were a scam artist.

[Ryan Shiroky]

there is a very specific way I answer THAT phone call... "Bob, my marketing team is very resourceful and diligent in what they do. We have ran many geographic surveys and business in your general area, on average, qualify for the amount of money you see on the marketing material in front of you... Do YOU actually have a need for financing within your business? WOULD YOU benefit from a $XYZ cash infusion in your business?"

thats GOLD... potent sh*t...

[Ryan Shiroky]

We send out a mailer that looks like a check too... its even perforated.... looks sooo real...

[funding pro]

6.25% lead to funding ratio is nothing to frown at. Being that your deals are coming from referrals and convert at a high rate that probably seems low but it is not. I think your expectations are a little off if that is your concern.

As for the check mailers, like Ryan said, its all about how you handle the calls. I love when people call from the bank asking why they cant deposit the checks. I hate to say it, but it really shows how stupid some people are, especially since there aren't any routing or account numbers on the check itself. HOW ARE YOU RUNNING A BUSINESS???? Somehow, those folks can still be converted

[Ryan Shiroky]

6.25% lead to funding ratio is nothing to frown at. Being that your deals are coming from referrals and convert at a high rate that probably seems low but it is not. I think your expectations are a little off if that is your concern.

As for the check mailers, like Ryan said, its all about how you handle the calls. I love when people call from the bank asking why they cant deposit the checks. I hate to say it, but it really shows how stupid some people are, especially since there aren't any routing or account numbers on the check itself. HOW ARE YOU RUNNING A BUSINESS???? Somehow, those folks can still be converted

it really is hysterical... but now you know they are in the bank, i make them get the docs right there "listen, bob, you obviously could use the money since we both know you ran straight to the bank... ask the teller to prepare a package of your last 6 months of statements and a month to date activity report, i'm going to email you my application right now, fill it out and stick it in the fac with the completed app and LET GET YOU SOME MOOOONNNEEEEYYYY!!!!" (raises arms and shifts head side to side like king tut)

no B.S. guys, thats how it goes down...

[aak723]

6.25% lead to funding ratio is nothing to frown at. Being that your deals are coming from referrals and convert at a high rate that probably seems low but it is not. I think your expectations are a little off if that is your concern.

I'm curious as to how anyone is scaling at a 6.25% close rate. I think to sustain a workforce one has to go hard at these leads and pound them repetitively.

Next, what software are you using for powerdial systems? So far the pricing seems to be hovering near .02/minute for all calls places or .12/minute for calls that connect.

[Ryan Shiroky]

if you wanna go the cheapest way possible... there are skype add-ons that you can use to click to dial out of an excel spreadsheet... I know an ISO that is doing an insane amount of biz HAND DIALING... WARRIORS I tell you....

[skideeppow]

Ryan,
You really think the social media is a viable way to go? I tried that for a number of months and got ****.
As for the OP, if you are only making 5 points on a deal, that is a real problem. I know the market is competitive, but 5 points is too low. I did around 700k last month in funding, and average 8 points.
I am pretty small shop, me an assistant and some outside guys I 1099 with.

[aak723]

As for the OP, if you are only making 5 points on a deal, that is a real problem. I know the market is competitive, but 5 points is too low. I did around 700k last month in funding, and average 8 points.
I am pretty small shop, me an assistant and some outside guys I 1099 with.

Wow. $700K at 8 points is great and will make a 6.25% return worth it. I'm guessing the funders didn't start you off with that. What was your volume when you renegotiated?

Also, do you use anything fancy to generate biz?

[funding pro]

I'm curious as to how anyone is scaling at a 6.25% close rate. I think to sustain a workforce one has to go hard at these leads and pound them repetitively.

Next, what software are you using for powerdial systems? So far the pricing seems to be hovering near .02/minute for all calls places or .12/minute for calls that connect.

To be successful at anything you obviously need to maximize every opportunity and be as efficient as possible. To scale, its not a matter of what percent you are converting at, it is a matter of converting the best percentages where margins are the greatest. You need to consider the opportunity cost of certain lead sources vs. others. There may be super low cost leads or even those that are strictly success based that aren't worth pursuing because they just aren't as good as others. The most important thing is to know your numbers. Without a CRM/LRM or some sort of sophisticated tracking software there will be no way to know these things and in turn maximize your profits.

[AndyYSCISOdept]

6.25% lead to funding ratio is nothing to frown at. Being that your deals are coming from referrals and convert at a high rate that probably seems low but it is not. I think your expectations are a little off if that is your concern.

As for the check mailers, like Ryan said, its all about how you handle the calls. I love when people call from the bank asking why they cant deposit the checks. I hate to say it, but it really shows how stupid some people are, especially since there aren't any routing or account numbers on the check itself. HOW ARE YOU RUNNING A BUSINESS???? Somehow, those folks can still be converted

As the guy who determines which of the 5 in house funders our ISO's files go to at YELLOWSTONE CAPITAL I can say that if you are turning over 6.25% I would be reasonably proud.

That being said, if you can send some of those to Yellowstone to fund I think we could really pump up the stats.

Email me for details.

[MCNetwork]

aak723, I think your results were pretty good. Remember, you were refunded 8 leads so you really generated 7 apps out of 24 leads which is very solid. If you expanded your sample size to 100 leads, you should get 29 apps (based on your ratio). You'll find that your average deal size would probably increase and you might have a couple $50K+ deals in the mix as well.

Your sample size of 24 leads was too small to adequately gauge your performance. I think if you stuck it out for 6 months, you would have seen much better results.

[Ryan Shiroky]

Ryan,
You really think the social media is a viable way to go? I tried that for a number of months and got ****.
As for the OP, if you are only making 5 points on a deal, that is a real problem. I know the market is competitive, but 5 points is too low. I did around 700k last month in funding, and average 8 points.
I am pretty small shop, me an assistant and some outside guys I 1099 with.

I feel that every little bit counts... im not saying to spend 3 hours a day doing it... but you def want to have a facebook/twitter/youtube account.... and post something up AT LEAST once a week, if your marketing your own company... if it was me, I would post daily... but thats me... plus, you can pay for youtube to advertise for you... give them a 10 second video clip and they will play is prior to videos ppl watch... if it wasn't affective, no one would do it... and i get an ad every time i try to watch something on youtube... im sure its more of a long run type of marketing though, i dont see anyone making any immediate returns... but everything is worth doing when it comes to marketing... once again, though, this is just my opinion. I am in NO WAY a marketing guru...

[Ryan Shiroky]

I have gotten a little bit of traction from FB though... not anything to brag home about... but for the cost (which is $0) it was definitely worth it...

[DirectMedia_Scott]

6.25% lead to funding ratio is nothing to frown at. Being that your deals are coming from referrals and convert at a high rate that probably seems low but it is not. I think your expectations are a little off if that is your concern.

As for the check mailers, like Ryan said, its all about how you handle the calls. I love when people call from the bank asking why they cant deposit the checks. I hate to say it, but it really shows how stupid some people are, especially since there aren't any routing or account numbers on the check itself. HOW ARE YOU RUNNING A BUSINESS???? Somehow, those folks can still be converted

Well said.

[Hovis]

Live transfers are tough if your talking about press 1 we just got through a round of 250 with only 6% good calls if your doing it alone I wouldn't recommend it you will be in DNC HELL! Haha

That is so funny quartz... my crew of 4 rolled through 400 over the past week or so and what can I say...... I think I may fund one crappy deal. We will NOT be re-ordering.... DNC DNC DNC DNC DNC, take me off the list... I've hit 2 1000 times.... etc...etc.... on and on.

The "potentials" that were touted weren't even close... lol

[funding pro]

Press 1 is really only worth it if you can get a "specialized" list and target those business owners based on the relationship. For example, if somehow you got a list with all of Time Warner Cable's Business Class customers, dumped them into the dialer and the recording started "Attention Time Warner Cable's Business Class customers, for a limited time..." Other than that you will continue to experience those issues. Also, a few hundred will be burned through in minutes. You typically need to run through thousands of them at a time. When they say something is a numbers game, press 1 is absolutely a numbers game. Timing is also very important with these. God have mercy on your soul if you try running a press 1 campaign all with restaurants during lunch.

[MCNetwork]

My experience with Press 1's has been a disaster. It's probably only worth it if you assign a minimum wage clerk to field all the calls as long as he doesn't mind being in DNC hell all day long.

[Franklin]

Even with a minimum wage clerk, which would help until they burnout and become office charcoal, one of the biggest issues with press 1's is that successful owners (with large enough cashflow for viable deals) typically don't press 1 to an automated message. You can use a press 1 going to a recording, but many won't leave a message either.

An avatar can be effective, but again, how do you get good merchants to opt-in, and typically the cost for a lead (if you don't control the avatar internally) is higher, as you do dial through thousands of records.


There's only 2 or 3 entities/people that I've seen that do press 1s in an efficient manner. The top one gets successful people to respond, has a 10%+ opt-in rate,
has a screening process, and the end product is usually 1 out of 2 are very good leads.









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