[AlexSMF]

--

[Michael I]

got to love the disappearing threads

[Funder Mark]

I want the admin to come out and say what it takes for a thread to be taken down. Whenever a thread is removed, it makes the website look bad, and if people leave, then Daily Funder looses its value.

[arezalmighty]

I want the admin to come out and say what it takes for a thread to be taken down. Whenever a thread is removed, it makes the website look bad, and if people leave, then Daily Funder looses its value.

^^

[fund it]

what was on the thread that made the admin remove ?

[Funder Mark]

Long story made very short, an ISO accused them of stealing commission.

[mcaguru]

Carl I don't have time to read that now.

Let me be clear. I saw a breakout capital contract Was a 1.44 over 100 and a fraction days with an origination fee and a fixed daily payment.

I don't know the legality of putting up the contract.

[CrouchingIsoHiddenFunder]

Carl I don't have time to read that now.

Let me be clear. I saw a breakout capital contract Was a 1.44 over 100 and a fraction days with an origination fee and a fixed daily payment.

I don't know the legality of putting up the contract.

I did not see that if a contract or even intimate details of a contract were posted to the forum that needed to be removed right away. We don't do that.... at least none of us should. That's bad business and amoral if not illegal. The only outside party that has ever seen a piece of one of my contracts was the Notary I had handling COJ's before we got in house notary. The terms and details of funding contracts should not go beyond the broker, lender, and client. That's just good business there are too many client and lender specific details in those things to be making them public just on what we would have once called 'general principle'

[Cfairbank]

I did not see that if a contract or even intimate details of a contract were posted to the forum that needed to be removed right away. We don't do that.... at least none of us should. That's bad business and amoral if not illegal. The only outside party that has ever seen a piece of one of my contracts was the Notary I had handling COJ's before we got in house notary. The terms and details of funding contracts should not go beyond the broker, lender, and client. That's just good business there are too many client and lender specific details in those things to be making them public just on what we would have once called 'general principle'

Agreed, simply asking Marcus to send me the details of this deal and I'll look into it. On a no names basis, I will gladly share the details of this supposed "deal". We don't hide behind rates, our product is not "cheap", but we also won't take or keep customers on our product if they should be on better, cheaper capital -- short term lending is inherently expensive, and stacking makes it that much more expensive. The issue we have has nothing to do with headline rates: It's the cycling/renewals with little disclosure and knowledge that it's impossible for a business to support a product for an extended period of time -- name a business that can has the growth rate or margins to support a 600% APR over a multi year period. The issue in this space is not the rates, and that's why you haven't seen any rate caps in any of the states that are looking at regulation.

[Cfairbank]

Carl I don't have time to read that now.

Let me be clear. I saw a breakout capital contract Was a 1.44 over 100 and a fraction days with an origination fee and a fixed daily payment.

I don't know the legality of putting up the contract.

Email it to me, you have my email. Again, there is nothing inherently wrong with high cost, short term deals -- it's the cycling that is business crushing.

You also PM'd me saying "one of your ISOs claims they saw that contract" -- if you have it, send it to me. If it exists, I'll figure out the background and gladly share it with the forum.

[Michael I]

Email it to me, you have my email. Again, there is nothing inherently wrong with high cost, short term deals -- it's the cycling that is business crushing.

You also PM'd me saying "one of your ISOs claims they saw that contract" -- if you have it, send it to me. If it exists, I'll figure out the background and gladly share it with the forum.

i feel that is what causes half the stacks . as a broker there is plenty of times i can win a deal with giving them a stack as it comes out cheaper . had a merchant the other month that his "a" lender had him on a 1.26 9 months but needed to pay double on his 20k balance . it was way cheaper just doing a 7 month second for 20k at a 1.38 .
i wonder if lenders calculate that when they make the greedy calls . Also lenders who offer an early pay off discount only if you use them have the right idea , look at the post the other day with quickbridge how the rep cant move him away because he wants the discount

[mcaguru]

I am the most legal conscious minded individual. I would need my entire legal team at the largest white shoe firm in America to allow me to post somthing like that.

[mcaguru]

Carl i will make it easy on both of us...Why don't you bring in your entire team (get them some cookies and coffee - always a good way to lighted the mood when the CEO calls a meeting) and while they are munching on the cookies (it'll keep them quiet while you talking) ask them we (Breakout Capital) ever contracted a merchant for a 1.44 over 100+ days that included an origination fee and a fixed daily payment....At cresthill Capital we know facts like that just like a UNITED AIRLESS PILOT knows the runway # he needs to taxi on....

[mcaguru]

BTW nothing persona Carl, i just read you knocking the high risk funding sector and wanted to know why are you knocking a product of yours...I believe you explained why your 1.44 short term deal with origination fee may be different then some other funding houses.. you may be right..

[Cfairbank]

We went through our whole database -- less than 1% of our lifetime originations were initially priced between 1.4 and 1.44 (nothing higher than that) with a term of less than nine months. Every single one of those companies was eligible for the rate reduction after two months. One took it, one was placed with another lender since we wouldn't cycle them on our books at that rate and they didn't qualify for rate reduction, and one paid off (we refused to renew because they did not qualify for rate reduction). I don't know what deal you are seeing, but that's our less than 9 mo's 1.4s book in its entirety.

This is what the high risk companies need to understand: rate is not the problem. It's the cycling. It's the double dipping. It's the lack of disclosure. It's the irresponsible stacking. These combined are what create debt traps -- it's not your first three month 1.45x, it's the ones that follow.

[admin]

Parts of this thread have been removed, as I'm sure many will notice. Why? It's complicated. See an old post about this kind of thing: http://dailyfunder.com/showthread.ph...ll=1#post45287

[Jonathon]

This thread has been edited and all the stuff pertaining to Jonathan Braun and Richmond has been deleted..We can change the name of the thread now to either Breakout Vs. Mantis or Richmondgate

[mcaguru]

This thread has been edited and all the stuff pertaining to Jonathan Braun and Richmond has been deleted..We can change the name of the thread now to either Breakout Vs. Mantis or Richmondgate

Johnathon there is nothing vs Breakout..i have heard great things about Carl he ran a big portfolio at a very large Investment Banking Firm, Carl is the real deal, I read his post about how things need to change and wanted some clarity on what someone showed me...Perhaps down the road he will sell science data technology so high risk players can evaluate cycles and intentions and other data points that can perhaps help high risk funders.

[Jonathon]

OK, lets go with Richmondgate then..

[Cfairbank]

This is my last contribution to this discussion: again, rate is not the problem -- I get the risk of the high risk space, and we've done some tests to see if we can disrupt that space with our product. If folks weren't cycled through renewals, we wouldn't even be having this discussion -- paying 1.45 one time for something that will drive revenue or to help build credit to be able to qualify for more sustainable financing is completely legitimate. But that's not the way this space works, from the A to D players -- the cost of acquisition means folks try to keep their customers regardless of whether they can get something better. The role of the high risk segment should be (a) one time higher risk deal that needs to be done quickly or (b) as a bridge to better capital. Otherwise, it creates debt traps and it will end up with the same result of the pay day space. If a high risk player had a lower cost product that they graduated people to, they could build a great, sustainable business (without all the BS that is included in high cost capital such as COJs or crazy definitions of default)

I am not saying we are perfect, but our main goal whenever we get someone onto our books is to make sure the capital makes sense for them -- we will do what we can to improve the business's prospects of accessing cheaper or the right form of capital, either through us or lower rate lenders. If our product doesn't make sense up front, we won't make an offer. Once they are on our books and it's a higher cost deal, if we can't graduate them to sustainable capital we won't keep cycling them.

[HeatherF]

I don't usually come on and get in the "tit for tat' that happens on this site, but I will help defend Carl. Breakout Capital and Carl have always demonstrated to me both in our verbal conversations and as Elevate being a referral partner of Breakout; they are trying to break the cycles these clients get in... Elevate and Breakout are very like minded but attacking different sides of the " High risk" trap... Elevate has tier structures that move clients out of the high cost and short terms, Breakout helps with consolidating. We need more people who see the pitfalls of high risk to step up and not just come in and create another stacking company or look for the quick commission and put the merchant in another bad situation.


Heather Francis
CEO
Elevate Funding
888-382-3945
heather@elevatefunding.biz

[Michael I]

I don't usually come on and get in the "tit for tat' that happens on this site, but I will help defend Carl. Breakout Capital and Carl have always demonstrated to me both in our verbal conversations and as Elevate being a referral partner of Breakout; they are trying to break the cycles these clients get in... Elevate and Breakout are very like minded but attacking different sides of the " High risk" trap... Elevate has tier structures that move clients out of the high cost and short terms, Breakout helps with consolidating. We need more people who see the pitfalls of high risk to step up and not just come in and create another stacking company or look for the quick commission and put the merchant in another bad situation.


Heather Francis
CEO
Elevate Funding
888-382-3945
heather@elevatefunding.biz

does elevate offer early payment discounts ?
when you renew do you double dip or add on ?

[mcaguru]

does elevate offer early payment discounts ?
when you renew do you double dip or add on ?

Heather hats off to both, i respect anyone darting capital at merchants, I only peeped up because Carl spoke out against Short high factor rates and wanted to know if what i saw was correct (listen i see fake bank statements ALL the time time and perhaps someone evil looking to harm Carl and his reputation as an outspoken individual of subprime Funding showed me a FAKE1.44 under 115 days with an origination fee and a fixed daily re-payment)...

[HDF]

Heather hats off to both, i respect anyone darting capital at merchants, I only peeped up because Carl spoke out against Short high factor rates and wanted to know if what i saw was correct (listen i see fake bank statements ALL the time time and perhaps someone evil looking to harm Carl and his reputation as an outspoken individual of subprime Funding showed me a FAKE1.44 under 115 days with an origination fee and a fixed daily re-payment)...

The GURU in full retreat. Talking out of his ass again and again.

[HeatherF]

does elevate offer early payment discounts ?
when you renew do you double dip or add on ?

Here is what we do that is different

We do allow for early payment discount- should the client not default on their agreement
We have tier structured funding- based on tier we require paybacks up to 85% ... this will be Refinanced
We have a product called Flex Funds for clients - that after 3 weeks of successful payments they can add on up to 30% of initial funding- with no change in payment remit ( % or daily remit
We do weekly adjustments for our daily remits (allows the clients to have fluctuation in cash flow without risking NSF issues)
We do not charge fees of any kind (outside the cost of funds)
We do not file COJ
We do not Pull credit


We have clients that are under renewals with us that are on 8 month terms at 1.32 factor rates. So we do work the clients out of the trap... I actually wrote a letter of recommendation for a merchant so that BFS would consider him for funding and that he could be eligible for the longer terms and lower rates that they provide.