[Karen37a]

I hesitate posting this on the dailyfunder because I have enough competition as it is and I need to become a million dollar producer before I go on the lecture circuit or write a book. ( being sarcastic )

People keep saying the ucc's are saturated, the business is saturated, that this business is over etc. Which business isn't saturated? Switching cell phone services, thousands and thousand of Mortgages companies after the shake out, Fast food restaurants etc.

The # 1 problem I see with the agents on my team is that they can not get to the gatekeeper, and when they do, they cant capture their attention in the first 30 seconds because that's all you have.

a) "take me off your list" >> I never hear this, b) ask the wife/partner etc never hear it as well, getting flat out hung up on..rarely happens.

What i do hear is "Loan Shark" And I welcome the response because its like a chess game "Check" when they say that. Then you move in "Checkmate"

If people 98% of people cannot get past the gatekeeper , or get to the "real" decision maker that leaves the rest to the 2% and me , the few that get there. ( these are also the more well qualified borrowers, not the ones who send docs in 5 seconds because they have been turned down 20 times, 5 times thru the same lender thru 5 different isos ).

Also what do you say once there ...30 seconds ..tick tick tick. People are tired of being sold by salespeople ( for any product) . And they can smell you coming. They are not stupid and they know they have a broker on the phone who just wants to make a sale and does not care about their best interest..no matter how you try to fancy it up.

Its kind of like bluffing in poker, you better be good at it when you are at the big boys table or do not sit down.

And I love the guys on my team with the mbas, trying to "quantify" their way into the situation by using quadratic equations. Quantitative analysis, comparative analysis blah blah Algorithms.

You have to speak the language of the person you are talking to.

Their is a science to this. A science to selling.

# 1 thing ** they have to like you, and think you can offer them value and not waste their time like the other 100 idiots that just called who promised the world and couldn't deliver**

I am not going to give up my script or my secrets but here is a freebie.

How about " I am not sure if this is right for you" try that instead of...we can get the best rates.

Thats IF you get thru the gatekeeper and stay on the phone past the initial 30 seconds, without sounding like a hustler.

It isnt the Leads. Although they are tough to get thru. VERY VERY VERY VERY Tough.

But again. Why do you think we all get paid ***Rockstar commission *** If clients were easy to find and their was an automated way to do it, the Lenders would drop our commission to 1% because they wouldn't need us.

There are better ways to get to people ( and all my secrets I am not posting here)

I am going to put my head down and do what I am preaching about...lead from the front make a goal to close 10 sales personally while my team follows behind me... complaining about the leads the whole way, and trying to find laydowns, (and again the laydowns have 5 liens, 50 nsfs , defaulted I am exaggerating for effect)

If there was a contest where everyone who closed 500k in sales personally for the month got 1 million in cash bonus..how many would make it? What would you do? You wouldn't go home at 5pm, you would be calling the west coast. And if my success depended on you..you would be sleeping on the floor in my office.

Off i go to make that a reality( there is no 1 million bonus just commission and renewals ) or die trying .

[Franklin]

Good post Karen. What I also see is two people with the same script, and one uses it effectively and gets results and the other gets nothing. How you sound and how you carry yourself on the phone also determines how seriously the person on the other end takes you.

The weirdest thing is when young guys with no success in this industry insist on doing things their own way, and then tell you its your system that's broken when they don't work out, despite the system working for 80% of the rest of the office.

I prefer yellow pages over uccs; less competition, cleaner files, more chances of renewals, they turnover well 3 - 6 mths later if you actually follow up because no one knows they are looking for money since nothing is filed on them.

[Karen37a]

I agree with you except I like UCC over yellow pages...(but I mix them up)

[jotucker1983]

Karen,

Great post and I agree with a good chunk of what you said, however, from my experience it's all about the leads. What is a lead for our space? A lead is a guy with a business that generically qualifies for the product, who at this very moment or in the upcoming short term, will have a need for alternative working capital for (insert whatever reason here).

You can find this guy through a variety of ways, such as through strategic network referrals, large marketing budgets, or even through doing random cold calling out of the Yellow Pages.

But note, the issue with the random cold calling is that your conversion to leads is going to be very, very, low, which means you usually burn the hell out and don't generate enough leads to produce enough new applications, to produce enough fundings for you to have staying power. That's the honest truth because you just will not have many small business owners from a generic pool, who will have a need for alternative working capital with sky high rates.

- Gatekeepers don't matter
- Zig Ziggler books don't matter
- Positive affirmations don't matter

Either the business needs alternative capital or not. If the gatekeeper on the telephone is pushing you away from speaking with the "owner", it's usually for a reason and that reason is because the "owner" has told them that they don't need any thing.

Also the problem with UCCs is that the record is getting 10 - 20 calls a week. After so many calls, the owner tells the gatekeeper to no longer push through anymore calls to him. Either he's found the company he will work with (and told said rep to call his cell) or he will renew with his current company, but he's done entertaining more companies. That's the truth.

Why do you think we all get paid ***Rockstar commission *** If clients were easy to find and their was an automated way to do it, the Lenders would drop our commission to 1% because they wouldn't need us.

Correct, but what they would do instead is hire internally with a "base pay" and say that to get a "bonus" you have to hit some significantly high set quota amount that usually nobody hits or if somebody hits it, they will make sure to set it much higher next time so nobody hits it. They will also rotate guys out often, and when they hire the next set of guys they will make sure to set their base pay even lower.

We get paid a lot in commission because we are entrepreneurs. We have identified some open demand in the market (a pool of guys with need for alternative capital) and we are bringing them to our lending/funding partners for servicing in exchange for 2% - 10% in commission on the funded amount. A robot can't do that. An offshore little girl in a call center can't do that. It takes a sophiscated, analytical, and technical "professional" with business acumen and capital to do that.

It's why those of us that practice true "business development" will never be replaced by a robot or a little girl in a call center in India.

[MCNetwork]

I agree with John. We are selling a commoditized product. My money looks no different from John's, Karen's or Isaac's money. The typical modern sales techniques (ie. SPIN selling, etc.) don't really apply. If we were all selling CRM software, then Karen's techniques would make sense. There are different bells and whistles between Salesforce, Microsoft Dynamics, Sugar CRM and all the others. There are opportunities for great salespeople to successfully compete in the CRM field. You can't say the same about money.

Money is money no matter how you slice it, and our products are EXPENSIVE to boot. So it all boils down to a customer's need. A rational person wouldn't take a cash advance unless the alternative was much worse or their gross margins are high enough to offset the cost. And let's face it, most industries don't have 40-50% gross margins so the majority of our clients take an advance to alleviate or prevent some type of pain, not to obtain any pleasure. 90% of merchants don't need our product. They have positive cash flow and that's the way businesses should be. And the 10% who are in trouble may avoid a cash advance because it will only turn a bad situation even worse. A cash advance is a stop gap, a quick fix, a distasteful solution. It doesn't add any value to a merchant's business. It's something that is used as an act of desperation and when no better option is available. Let's not kid ourselves; this is not "value added selling." No one likes to go into debt. I certainly don't. (To be fair, I know a handful of healthy businesses who incorporate cash advances to finance inventory purchases that yields a positive ROI but these guys are few and far between.)

It's great to cold call a prospect and ask open ended questions and start a meaningful dialogue blah blah blah but a merchant's need boils down to a binary decision, either yes or no. I want to get to the NO as quickly as possible so I can get to the next YES. I'm not a chat room operator who's paid to keep someone on the phone as long as possible. You can spend a ton of time trying to win over the gatekeeper to get to the decisionmaker, or you can cut your loss and go straight to the next phone number. There is an almost infinite number of prospects to call anyway. It's all about figuring out the best use of your time.

Because we all sell a commoditized product, there are only a few differentiators:

1. Price and term length
2. The Salesperson
3. Ease of funding (number of stips needed)
4. Retrieval method (split%, daily, weekly, monthly ACH)

Price always trumps all the other differentiators. A merchant once told me, "Hey I really like you, but I like my money more." If two programs are fairly similar in price, the Salesperson's personality is the deciding factor. There is a lot of parity in the marketplace for points 3 and 4, so it really boils down to points 1 and 2. That's how we all differentiate ourselves in the marketplace. We can try to say things like, "I add so much more value to the transaction besides price because of my dashing good looks, stellar customer service and tireless work ethic" but that's really mostly lip service. Customers are really just looking for the best deal.

I'm not a lazy guy. I'm not scared to pick up the phone and make 300 dials a day. But I'd much rather buy 20 leads and possibly close 1 or 2, than make 4000 cold calls to close the same amount. My time is far too valuable to be a dialing machine and it's not the life I would choose for myself. It's arduous, it's grueling, and it pretty much sucks. I let others do all the heavy lifting because that's my preference. So for me, it's really all about the LEADS.

[funda21]

Franklin - even out of a yellow pages and you are the only broker one you fund it the majority of companies still file a UCC and they will eventually get tons of calls (if not from the backdooring funders themselves).

[Zach]

I worked with a gentleman one time, who I will never forget, who made 80-100 calls per day and averaged 3-4 applications per day. He is still doing it to this day and is a dear personal friend of mine. He ONLY calls from the Yellow Pages. He only cold-calls, yet consistently funds 10-14 deals per month between equipment leasing and working capital deals. He is an animal at what we do, and he is my daily reminder that NOTHING is impossible.

It's not all about being a "numbers game" (although that is certainly the best way to manage a sales floor). Some people have incredibly high conversion rates because they know how to apply the right sound-bytes at the right time.

[Karen37a]

He seems not only skilled but disciplined, hard to get on the phone when you work for yourself.

[MCNetwork]

I'd love to meet the guy and make a shrine for him because those stats are damn impossible!

[jotucker1983]

I worked with a gentleman one time, who I will never forget, who made 80-100 calls per day and averaged 3-4 applications per day. He is still doing it to this day and is a dear personal friend of mine. He ONLY calls from the Yellow Pages. He only cold-calls, yet consistently funds 10-14 deals per month between equipment leasing and working capital deals. He is an animal at what we do, and he is my daily reminder that NOTHING is impossible.

It's not all about being a "numbers game" (although that is certainly the best way to manage a sales floor). Some people have incredibly high conversion rates because they know how to apply the right sound-bytes at the right time.

I don't know Zack lol, I think your buddy might be telling you one thing but doing another because, we are all in a competition of sorts.

There's no way that guy is randomly cold calling people out of the Yellow pages with no prior research, analysis, etc. on that data, with a conversion of 4 applications off of 100 cold-calls, just because he "sounds good" or "is very charismatic" or "has special sales abilities".

But this is what most Sales Managers want sales reps in general to think sales is based on. They want them to think you can have bad marketing plans, no market segments, no capital, no innovative products, and nothing else in relation to "business acumen", but all you need is to "sound very good" with a nice charismatic personality and use Zig Ziggler sales tips or NLP programming, and you can sell fire to hell. You can have a bad territory with bad leads, and still produce "a lot", if you can just quote, unquote "sell".

They say this because let's call it like it is, they don't want to invest in their external sales force. They promote this strategy while hiring hundreds of reps on 100% commission, knowing good and well that individually over 80% of them won't make enough to pay the rent, but collectively the entire group produces a good amount of volume for "the house".

All the while on the side for their internal reps that they pay base salaries to, they are supplying them leads off of a marketing budget or through referrals from strategic networks lol.

[MCNetwork]

I don't know Zack lol, I think your buddy might be telling you one thing but doing another because, we are all in a competition of sorts.

There's no way that guy is randomly cold calling people out of the Yellow pages with no prior research, analysis, etc. on that data, with a conversion of 4 applications off of 100 cold-calls, just because he "sounds good" or "is very charismatic" or "has special sales abilities".

Especially when you consider that out of 100 cold calls, around 60% go straight to voicemail or the owner is unavailable. That means you only speak to about 40 decision makers. Out of these, maybe 70% immediately say they aren't interested and hang up on you. That means you only have 10-12 conversations that last longer than 60 seconds. To get 4 apps out of these conversations is ridiculously impossible. I'm not even going to go into the metric where only 20-30% of apps sent out actually come back. Granted, the majority of apps come from a pipeline that has been percolating for several months but even then, the stats Zach outlined aren't remotely realistic.

[anonymous]

Especially when you consider that out of 100 cold calls, around 60% are picked up by voicemail or the owner is unavailable. That means you only speak to about 40 decision makers. Out of these 70% immediately say they aren't interested and hang up on you. That means you only have 5 or 6 conversations that last longer than 60 seconds. To get 4 apps out of these 6 conversations is ridiculously impossible. Granted, the majority of apps come from a pipeline that has been percolating for several months but even then, the stats Zach outlined are impossible.

4 apps on 100 calls is far from impossible... and the owners who answer by saying "not interested" are usually the easiest to turn over.

[MCNetwork]

4 apps on 100 calls is far from impossible... and the owners who answer by saying "not interested" are usually the easiest to turn over.

I'll have some of what you're smoking please...

[anonymous]

If people 98% of people cannot get past the gatekeeper , or get to the "real" decision maker that leaves the rest to the 2% and me , the few that get there. ( these are also the more well qualified borrowers, not the ones who send docs in 5 seconds because they have been turned down 20 times, 5 times thru the same lender thru 5 different isos).

You have to speak the language of the person you are talking to. Their is a science to this. A science to selling.

truth

How about " I am not sure if this is right for you" try that instead of...we can get the best rates.

might be best to stop focusing so much on the product, sell yourself. i'm sure you can go on for hours telling someone who knows the industry the many ways in which you are superior to some schmuck in a call center. tell the merchant.

put yourself in their shoes. what would keep YOU on the phone? can't imagine it would be someone talking about their fantastic cash advance rates...

[jotucker1983]

Especially when you consider that out of 100 cold calls, around 60% are picked up by voicemail or the owner is unavailable. That means you only speak to about 40 decision makers. Out of these 70% immediately say they aren't interested and hang up on you. That means you only have 10-12 conversations that last longer than 60 seconds. To get 4 apps out of these conversations is ridiculously impossible. I'm not even going to go into the metric where only 20-30% of apps sent out actually come back. Granted, the majority of apps come from a pipeline that has been percolating for several months but even then, the stats Zach outlined aren't remotely realistic.

Right lol!

[Zach]

I worked with the guy when I was a fledgling newbie in this space and sat two seats away from him. I've not only seen it with my eyes but watched him work for months doing the exact same thing. I'm not saying there are many people like him -- I've hired and fired dozens of reps and not one came close to his skillset.

[Karen37a]

He probably was following up with people who said ...30 days, 60 days..pipeline

If you have 100 people who say 30 days...and they are serious, you might capture a few, plus you stay on the phone filling that pipeline.

I am just too old and tired to keep those numbers up, with all the other things I am doing.

So if you had 100 people who said 30 days...I can see getting 4 apps. Maybe that's what he was doing

Or he is just great on the open

[Karen37a]

BTW.

I call dropping the rate "dropping your drawers" and I have held on for dear life not dropping when my competition wanted to get/keep the deal.

They are dropping and not sending the payoff letter..i still got the sale.Sometimes their bad customer service in the past convinced the person to never go back. BUT the reason I knew this is I quized them on the front, while their guard was down about what they liked and didn't like about their current or last advance.
Then when they tried to cut the cost or say ..ill just go back to so and so..id say "i thought you said this about them".

ive even had the merchants ask the lender on the merchant call if they could drop the rate a bit...i still held on

Watch Tommy boy its hysterical ...he is chanting" dont take no for an answer , dont take no for an answer" the merchant says "no thanks" ..he says thank you very much, have a great day..do you validate. lol

upfront closing..it doesn't work all the time..but you are not getting dragged down to no commissions

I am at work on Sunday and leaving..no more chatting, or paperwork for me

[Zach]

He took the apps over the phone, submitted thru On Deck portal. 80% of his deals were equipment leasing

[FUNd]

I hesitate posting this on the dailyfunder because I have enough competition as it is and I need to become a million dollar producer before I go on the lecture circuit or write a book. ( being sarcastic )

People keep saying the ucc's are saturated, the business is saturated, that this business is over etc. Which business isn't saturated? Switching cell phone services, thousands and thousand of Mortgages companies after the shake out, Fast food restaurants etc.

The # 1 problem I see with the agents on my team is that they can not get to the gatekeeper, and when they do, they cant capture their attention in the first 30 seconds because that's all you have.

a) "take me off your list" >> I never hear this, b) ask the wife/partner etc never hear it as well, getting flat out hung up on..rarely happens.

What i do hear is "Loan Shark" And I welcome the response because its like a chess game "Check" when they say that. Then you move in "Checkmate"

If people 98% of people cannot get past the gatekeeper , or get to the "real" decision maker that leaves the rest to the 2% and me , the few that get there. ( these are also the more well qualified borrowers, not the ones who send docs in 5 seconds because they have been turned down 20 times, 5 times thru the same lender thru 5 different isos ).

Also what do you say once there ...30 seconds ..tick tick tick. People are tired of being sold by salespeople ( for any product) . And they can smell you coming. They are not stupid and they know they have a broker on the phone who just wants to make a sale and does not care about their best interest..no matter how you try to fancy it up.

Its kind of like bluffing in poker, you better be good at it when you are at the big boys table or do not sit down.

And I love the guys on my team with the mbas, trying to "quantify" their way into the situation by using quadratic equations. Quantitative analysis, comparative analysis blah blah Algorithms.

You have to speak the language of the person you are talking to.

Their is a science to this. A science to selling.

# 1 thing ** they have to like you, and think you can offer them value and not waste their time like the other 100 idiots that just called who promised the world and couldn't deliver**

I am not going to give up my script or my secrets but here is a freebie.

How about " I am not sure if this is right for you" try that instead of...we can get the best rates.

Thats IF you get thru the gatekeeper and stay on the phone past the initial 30 seconds, without sounding like a hustler.

It isnt the Leads. Although they are tough to get thru. VERY VERY VERY VERY Tough.

But again. Why do you think we all get paid ***Rockstar commission *** If clients were easy to find and their was an automated way to do it, the Lenders would drop our commission to 1% because they wouldn't need us.

There are better ways to get to people ( and all my secrets I am not posting here)

I am going to put my head down and do what I am preaching about...lead from the front make a goal to close 10 sales personally while my team follows behind me... complaining about the leads the whole way, and trying to find laydowns, (and again the laydowns have 5 liens, 50 nsfs , defaulted I am exaggerating for effect)

If there was a contest where everyone who closed 500k in sales personally for the month got 1 million in cash bonus..how many would make it? What would you do? You wouldn't go home at 5pm, you would be calling the west coast. And if my success depended on you..you would be sleeping on the floor in my office.

Off i go to make that a reality( there is no 1 million bonus just commission and renewals ) or die trying .

One of the best posts I've ever read.

[Franklin]

Karen,

It's why those of us that practice true "business development" will never be replaced by a robot or a little girl in a call center in India.

There are certain tasks that automation will never replace, like human relationships, but there are plenty of grunt actions, like manually dialing a phone, or counting numbers and data points, that a robot can easily replace and do more efficiently than a human with feelings and emotions that deals with boredom and de-motivation.

Even if a robot can generate 1 qualified app from 1500 phone calls, they can do it in under an hour, and for less than $30.

If you paid a telemarketer $12 an hour, they would take a whole day to generate 1 - 2 apps from the yellow pages (if we say 1.5 apps, that would be $96 for the day, or about $64 per app out). A robot is cheaper, faster, doesn't complain, doesn't take bathroom or smoke breaks, doesn't burn out, and if you tell it to triple it's production, you don't need to say one word, just give him a slap in the head (or move the slider on it's interface a little to the right).

[Franklin]

Especially when you consider that out of 100 cold calls, around 60% go straight to voicemail or the owner is unavailable. That means you only speak to about 40 decision makers. Out of these, maybe 70% immediately say they aren't interested and hang up on you. That means you only have 10-12 conversations that last longer than 60 seconds. To get 4 apps out of these conversations is ridiculously impossible. I'm not even going to go into the metric where only 20-30% of apps sent out actually come back. Granted, the majority of apps come from a pipeline that has been percolating for several months but even then, the stats Zach outlined aren't remotely realistic.

I've seen a script for cold calling restaurants only, where the merchant tells you they are willing to pay for expensive money.
The conversion is actually a little bit higher than 5%, and it does take a little more knowledge on how these merchants think, but if you know the lingo, 98% won't hang up but will listen and give you a shot.

[Franklin]

One of the best posts I've ever read.

Wait FUNd left the industry, and we just had a recent high to low profile ban.

Something smells..... I wonder what it cost Jay to buy out FUNd's profile.

I thought maybe 1 ucc record per reputation point, but he doesn't have enough uccs for that, so the mystery deepens....

[ridextreme]

He took the apps over the phone, submitted thru On Deck portal. 80% of his deals were equipment leasing

I've worked in mca going on 9 years and before this I was an equipment leasing professional. Those numbers just don't add up. Maybe in 2008 it was possible to get 4 submissions for every 100 calls, but even back then that did not happen every day.

Equipment leasing is an even bigger stretch - so all those people already had a piece of equipment picked out or a truck selected with VIN & Serial numbers at hand just waiting by the phone to be called to take his credit app?

[Zach]

Guy would just get apps, not packages. Even if they weren't buying for 30-60 days he would get their app