[mikem]

I don't know how this can ruin anyone's life. You sent a deal to an ISO these things should be expected.

If I tell ISO B that funder tried backdooring them I think the funder would loose a decent client-ISO B and it would be traced back to the rep who is highly involved in the firm not just some sales rep. I'm not a fan of whistle blowing but I hate the backdooring that goes on in this industry.

[FUNd]

FUNd, serious question-is it legit for a funder to call merchant and say "ISO is unreachable-let's move forward", and even if it is legit, does it
make any sense that a known name ISO goes AWOL for a week?

It's been said already here but why not just sign up with a direct lender, or go work for someone? I understand the allure of owning your own ISO comes with all benefits of being your own boss and being able to tell your LinkedIn network you've made it, but honestly, owning an ISO is a royal pain the ass. I owned one, and now am in management for a bigger, well-capitalized one. Our deals never (or seldom) get backdoored because of our volume and reputation with our funders. As a small fry (co-brokering deals no less), I'm sorry, you're going to get crushed in this market, and there's no shame in that.

Hitch your wagon to a bigger train, and although you may lose the fancy title, you'll gain dollars, which is why we are all here.

[aredmond]

It's been said already here but why not just sign up with a direct lender, or go work for someone? I understand the allure of owning your own ISO comes with all benefits of being your own boss and being able to tell your LinkedIn network you've made it, but honestly, owning an ISO is a royal pain the ass. I owned one, and now am in management for a bigger, well-capitalized one. Our deals never (or seldom) get backdoored because of our volume and reputation with our funders. As a small fry (co-brokering deals no less), I'm sorry, you're going to get crushed in this market, and there's no shame in that.

Hitch your wagon to a bigger train, and although you may lose the fancy title, you'll gain dollars, which is why we are all here.

What he said^^^

[rmckellar]

As someone making a funding decision, I pick up the phone on very infrequent occasions, especially if it's one that I really want to get. A lot of merchants are very receptive to the person actually making the decision on how much they are going to be offered and how amenable those terms are. We always pay the commission to the originating brokers, we would never backdoor someone in any situation. That being said, I've only had one ISO have a problem with it, and they had just started in the industry.

To me it's like this: if you have a problem with me speaking to a merchant that may be receiving my own money or my investors', then you either have serious complexes and trust issues, or you are trying to get over on me in one way or another. Either way, I don't like it. I'm an open and transparent guy, if I pick up the phone it's just to hammer out terms or to lock a merchant down before another company scoops him up.

[rmckellar]

1. ISO B submitted a full package to the funder with signed and dated credit app (my app) and bank statements (gathered by me)

Again, I'm not blaming the funder for screwing me I'm blaming the funder for screwing ISO B, which from my understanding from the funder, sends them a lot of work.

FUNd, serious question-is it legit for a funder to call merchant and say "ISO is unreachable-let's move forward", and even if it is legit, does it
make any sense that a known name ISO goes AWOL for a week?

Should I not care and move on because I was not directly and intentionally screwed? Knowing that a respectable funder is backdooring and screwing over my peer brokers?

ISO B is the focus. Funder attempted to backdoor them-thats all there is to it.

As to how ISO B got my file? Either one of my submitting ISO's justifiably sent it to them or or they received it in some other unethical way. Don't know yet but definately not blaming them just yet with out any proof.

How is this backdooring? Did the merchant get funded and you received commission? I can't understand what the problem is if they just called the merchant. If you send someone a file and they want to close it, and you aren't reachable, or they think it's easiest to close it by calling the merchant directly (maybe they've funded him before and can shoot the **** and close the deal in one shot for all you know, maybe the ISO isnt answering calls and they want to close the deal before they get shopped, maybe they just have a lack of confidence in said ISO to close ANY deals), but how can you say that they were 'attempting to backdoor' WHEN THEY DON'T EVNE KNOW YOU EXIST? You didn't send them the file, someone else sent them the file. If you want to work with them directly, sign up as an ISO. I never understand why someone would sign up as a broker to a broker when you can just sign up with the funding company, unless they don't know how this industry works.

Do you think that when you send someone a file requesting say 100k, that no one has a right to speak to the person requesting the money?

Also, how can you be 'not directly and intentionally screwed'? It's pretty straightforward, either they called the merchant, funded him, and didn't pay a commission, which is backdooring, or they called the merchant TO HELP YOU OUT, there's no grey area here.

[Michael I]

As someone making a funding decision, I pick up the phone on very infrequent occasions, especially if it's one that I really want to get. A lot of merchants are very receptive to the person actually making the decision on how much they are going to be offered and how amenable those terms are. We always pay the commission to the originating brokers, we would never backdoor someone in any situation. That being said, I've only had one ISO have a problem with it, and they had just started in the industry.

To me it's like this: if you have a problem with me speaking to a merchant that may be receiving my own money or my investors', then you either have serious complexes and trust issues, or you are trying to get over on me in one way or another. Either way, I don't like it. I'm an open and transparent guy, if I pick up the phone it's just to hammer out terms or to lock a merchant down before another company scoops him up.

i halfway argue with this . i do trust my lenders but i do not trust anyone to close a deal for me . if you start going over terms with the merchnat , next thing will be that you feel you locked him and saved the deal by going down to 5% let say and i should be kissing your toes . while i might feel i could have closed him at the full 12% and screw you . as a lender or an iso you always want to be transparent and let each other know what is happening . maybe you can 3 way with the iso and make him stay on mute .
fyi this happened to me where i got paid 1% on a 510k 3 years ago because the lender wanted to keep talking direct to the merchnat .

[FUNd]

i halfway argue with this . i do trust my lenders but i do not trust that anyone to close a deal for me . if you start going over terms with the merchnat , next thing will be that you feel you locked him and saved the deal by going down to 5% let say and i should be kissing your toes . while i might feel i could have closed him at the full 12% and screw you . as a lender or an iso you always want to be transparent and let each other know what is happening . maybe you can 3 way with the iso and make him stay on mute .
fyi this happened to me where i got paid 1% on a 510k 3 years ago because the lender wanted to keep talking direct to the merchnat .

Making an underwriting call with specific questions for the merchant is one thing but completely taking the file over, calling the merchant, and shooting out pricing without the ISOs consent is generally frowned upon. Not a good way to forge trust.

[Michael I]

Making an underwriting call with specific questions for the merchant is one thing but completely taking the file over, calling the merchant, and shooting out pricing without the ISOs consent is generally frowned upon. Not a good way to forge trust.

agreed .
this was richard last line "if I pick up the phone it's just to hammer out terms or to lock a merchant down before another company scoops him up".

[FUNd]

agreed .
this was richard last line "if I pick up the phone it's just to hammer out terms or to lock a merchant down before another company scoops him up".

Yeah, that's the last file he'd ever see.

[CHAMP3]

This sounds more common then not with small ISO shops in the marketplace with whom have no experience. Therefore they get prayed upon.

[mikem]

but completely taking the file over,calling the merchant, and shooting out pricing without the ISOs consent is generally frowned upon. Not a good way to forge trust.

Yeah well thats what happened...they took the file over, called the merchant and shot a price without ISO B's consent, that's what I'm frowning about.

[AndyYSCISOdept]

I don't know how this can ruin anyone's life. You sent a deal to an ISO these things should be expected.

RIDE, this was exactly what I thought was happening...
So often I get a call from an ISO who sent the file to another ISO claiming to be a direct lender (who in turn sent it to us to fund) and when I make an offer and fund they call me trying to cut out the person they sent the deal to because "Theyre backdooring me"

The fact is they didn't backdoor anything, all they did was send the deal to a funder to get the deal done. LEARN WHO YOURE WORKING WITH BEFORE BLASTING THEM ON DF

[ridextreme]

So often I get a call from an ISO who sent the file to another ISO claiming to be a direct lender

99% of the people that claim to be direct lenders are simply lying. Direct Lenders don't make outbound cold calls. The few that do also broker deals out anyway, so what's the big advantage about "claiming" to be a direct lender? If you DID work for a direct lender, do you not make any commission off of the deal anyway?

Everyone wants to lie and brag that they're calling from a "direct lender" so they feel important I guess.

[AndyYSCISOdept]

Point Ride!

[J.Celifarco]

I love when merchants ask me "are you a direct lender" The first thing I say to them is no and why would you want me to be. If a broker lies to a merchant and says to them I am a direct lener and you should only work with direct lender I will win that deal more often then not. At some point someone came up with the only work with direct lender pitch and for some reason people still think it works. It is old and used and needs to go away it just dont work

[NoBigDeal]

so what's the big advantage about "claiming" to be a direct lender?

Simple, brokers give themselves a bad name overall to perspective merchants. Merchant's want to go to the direct source because they know it's cheaper.
It's easier for an ISO to lie to a merchant so they could collect docs and once they already have a full file they could start being slightly more honest about who they really are

[AndyYSCISOdept]

JC, I honestly think that is the most intelligent rebuttal to this whole direct lender farce.

The truth is, I am not a direct lender personally, I broker deals to the in-house funders at YSC(meaning not shopped outside the 4 walls of the office), ultimately I am providing a lot of options for said ISO and/or merchant but I don't need a title of Direct lender and I think my track record backs up my assumption that this model works.

[FUNd]

Merchant's want to go to the direct source because they know it's cheaper.

I'd like to go directly to the source on almost everything I buy. Why do I shop retail? Because I have convenient access to products and a vast array of brands to choose from, and the extra I pay usually outweighs the time I would have to spend going to each individual vendor.

[mikem]

The fact is they didn't backdoor anything, all they did was send the deal to a funder to get the deal done. LEARN WHO YOURE WORKING WITH BEFORE BLASTING THEM ON DF

I guess I don't know what backdooring means...I just thought that if a funder calls the merchant and says "we cant reach the ISO that sent us the deal so we are taking it on" means they are attempting to backdoor, sorry for the n00b mistake.

and I didn't blast anyone...yet.

[MCNetwork]

Direct Lenders don't make outbound cold calls.
Everyone wants to lie and brag that they're calling from a "direct lender" so they feel important I guess.

LOL I beg to differ. I work at the inside sales group for a top 5 funder and we make a TON of outbound cold calls. We tell merchants "Why would you want to work with a broker who charges you a commission when we can get you the wholesale rate?"

Works every time...

[NoBigDeal]

I'd like to go directly to the source on almost everything I buy. Why do I shop retail? Because I have convenient access to products and a vast array of brands to choose from, and the extra I pay usually outweighs the time I would have to spend going to each individual vendor.

Difference is when you're shopping retail, you have a visual on all your options at a given price. Not upsold to MAX COMMISSION!!!

[Michael I]

I'd like to go directly to the source on almost everything I buy. Why do I shop retail? Because I have convenient access to products and a vast array of brands to choose from, and the extra I pay usually outweighs the time I would have to spend going to each individual vendor.

i buy pretty much everything on amazon . My experience is when you tell them that you are a broker but charge no fees they are completely fine with working with you . sort of like when you are looking for an apartment and you try to find one from the landlord so you don't need to pay the broker fee

[NoBigDeal]

I guess I don't know what backdooring means...I just thought that if a funder calls the merchant and says "we cant reach the ISO that sent us the deal so we are taking it on" means they are attempting to backdoor, sorry for the n00b mistake.

and I didn't blast anyone...yet.

It seems like many people will have different definitions, so let's just throw it out there and see what comes up as a common denominator.
How would you define, "back-dooring" a deal?

I think it's simply cutting out any party involved in a deal that put work into getting it funded and wasn't compensated for the work they put in. But the key is that the deal has to fund.
It's just a whole lot of wasted time if the deal doesn't even end up going anywhere

[HDF]

JC, I honestly think that is the most intelligent rebuttal to this whole direct lender farce.

The truth is, I am not a direct lender personally, I broker deals to the in-house funders at YSC(meaning not shopped outside the 4 walls of the office), ultimately I am providing a lot of options for said ISO and/or merchant but I don't need a title of Direct lender and I think my track record backs up my assumption that this model works.

Good point Andy. BTW: What percentage of deals do you eventually fund away from your in-house funders?

[FUNd]

Difference is when you're shopping retail, you have a visual on all your options at a given price. Not upsold to MAX COMMISSION!!!

If you don't think a salesperson has ever maxed you out on markup, be it an auto purchase or a loaf of bread you're lying to yourself.