[J.Celifarco]

I never worked at second source but I know a lot of people who did and Its not everyone that came out of 2nd source. Just like at any company there are the good the bad and the ugly. Maybe there were a few more bad and ugly that came from that shop but it definitely wasn't everyone. Either way I dont care where they came from 4th position equals bad deal period the end. You screw the merchant and the other 3 companies in front of you in the hopes of getting your own money out quick with no regard for anyone else.

[AndyYSCISOdept]

Agreed.

[TheShitzuofMCA]

Agreed @Jotucker especially since moving into 2nd position you have a pay history to review in statements. I think it makes even more sense if the daily ACH can be lowered with this new deal, further lowering the risk of default. Once you get into the 3rd and 4th positions you are playing with fire. Merchant will usually need to keep stacking in order to stay afloat.

[jotucker1983]

Agreed @Jotucker especially since moving into 2nd position you have a pay history to review in statements. I think it makes even more sense if the daily ACH can be lowered with this new deal, further lowering the risk of default. Once you get into the 3rd and 4th positions you are playing with fire. Merchant will usually need to keep stacking in order to stay afloat.

Right, it's a crazy cycle. The brokers come in and stack the merchant to high hell, then those same brokers come right back in and look to sell the merchant a "consolidation" to "improve his cashflow"......the same cashflow that they were responsible for screwing up in the first place.

[AndyYSCISOdept]

Right, it's a crazy cycle. The brokers come in and stack the merchant to high hell, then those same brokers come right back in and look to sell the merchant a "consolidation" to "improve his cashflow"......the same cashflow that they were responsible for screwing up in the first place.

You mean like the banks and mortgage companies that sold people 5 mortgages on their houses in the early to mid 2000's?

[J.Celifarco]

You mean like the banks and mortgage companies that sold people 5 mortgages on their houses in the early to mid 2000's?

yep and we all know where that got us

[Chambo]

Right, it's a crazy cycle. The brokers come in and stack the merchant to high hell, then those same brokers come right back in and look to sell the merchant a "consolidation" to "improve his cashflow"......the same cashflow that they were responsible for screwing up in the first place.

and our good friends at the Dept of Justice look at this as predatory....and we all know what happens to predatory lenders.

[Natan]

I'm surprised no one offered the 5th position yet as its likely only a few weeks away.

[isaacdstern]

have not heard the nickname Scam Chanin in a while....lol

[AndyYSCISOdept]

have not heard the nickname Scam Chanin in a while....lol

Never had the pleasure.

[brokerCompany]

lesson to the next ISO best to keep your chest thumping 4th position from being advertised on this board. This has become a great resource for merchants to check out brokers and lenders. You are a pimp who will not last in the industry

[CpepeWBL]

Jay runs a great company, and has a very solid team with him at Wall.

[isaacdstern]

Thanks Austin!

[Austin@SCP]

Thanks Austin!

You are very welcome. All good things working with you guys.

[brokerCompany]

No shame in the business when you are making $$$. Short sighted indeed

[HFS]

No shame in the business when you are making $$$. Short sighted indeed

Im going to strongly disagree. "No shame" in risking a business into bankruptcy or default is WEAK.

[Austin@SCP]

Who doesn't love some good ole Adam Sandler...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LAnmnS0-9g

[HFS]

The way I see it as long as you fall under rule 501 of the Securities Act of 1933 you are good to go. lol

[sigmundpannu]

I agree with credit guy. Anyone whose been in this business long enough knows which lenders have no stacking clauses. The minute a merchant tells me they have an advance with a lender I know has a no stacking clause I tell them I'm not their guy. But if they make enough calls they'll find someone who doesn't care at all about them and their well being who will happily stack them.

[ADiamond]

op: you want a 5th and 6th?

[Michael I]

So beside for kalamata every lender will fund on top of regular financing. I have never seen an "A first position lender" ask to see terms on his bank loan or invoice factoring etc to see if they can " stack" on them . Now who decides where to draw the line . Is it the bank?the factoring company? The so called first position lenders ? The second position lenders ? Or companies like wall that will go what ever position as long as in their minds it makes sense for them and the merchant.
I have had enough of the double Standards and each thinking they know where to draw the line .
Bottom line it's the lenders money and the merchant decision on what they want to do . It is not the ISO job to be a moral compass on what to do

[J.Celifarco]

So beside for kalamata every lender will fund on top of regular financing. I have never seen an "A first position lender" ask to see terms on his bank loan or invoice factoring etc to see if they can " stack" on them . Now who decides where to draw the line . Is it the bank?the factoring company? The so called first position lenders ? The second position lenders ? Or companies like wall that will go what ever position as long as in their minds it makes sense for them and the merchant.
I have had enough of the double Standards and each thinking they know where to draw the line .
Bottom line it's the lenders money and the merchant decision on what they want to do . It is not the ISO job to be a moral compass on what to do

Michael Most regular financing is over much longer periods of time and the payments on those loans generally work out to 5% or lower then the total gross sales. In our space most 1st position lenders are comfortable taking 10%-14% of the gross sales as payment. When you get into second positions now that number is in the 20's.
If you go out farther then that you are getting to a point where you are taking 30% or more of a persons gross sales to pay back these loans. Most business's can not afford that and the only way to stay in business is for them to keep taking loans until they go out of business. If a broker knows this and dos it anyway they are wrong. You are screwing over the banks who gave the first loans making what was a good deal a default and you put the merchant in a position they could not sustain. It is not double standards what is should be is common sense. If none of this matters and bottom line you just want to fund the deal and get paid your commission. Think about what happens when you get sued by the 1st position bank when a deal with a big enough balance for them to care defaults. They sue then lender and the broker for tortuous interference. I willing to bet the commission wont cover that.

[Michael I]

Michael Most regular financing is over much longer periods of time and the payments on those loans generally work out to 5% or lower then the total gross sales. In our space most 1st position lenders are comfortable taking 10%-14% of the gross sales as payment. When you get into second positions now that number is in the 20's.
If you go out farther then that you are getting to a point where you are taking 30% or more of a persons gross sales to pay back these loans. Most business's can not afford that and the only way to stay in business is for them to keep taking loans until they go out of business. If a broker knows this and dos it anyway they are wrong. You are screwing over the banks who gave the first loans making what was a good deal a default and you put the merchant in a position they could not sustain. It is not double standards what is should be is common sense.

i am referring to the no stacking clause where people are saying its illegal to stack . All lenders will fund regardless of that and put it in their contracts and then get pissed that they were stacked . i saw a contract of someone who did a fifth have that same crap as swift of all these fees if he stacks . i had someone get in trouble from their trucking factor for taking out a credibly loan as it was a breach in contract

[iso@wallfunding]

Michael Most regular financing is over much longer periods of time and the payments on those loans generally work out to 5% or lower then the total gross sales. In our space most 1st position lenders are comfortable taking 10%-14% of the gross sales as payment. When you get into second positions now that number is in the 20's.
If you go out farther then that you are getting to a point where you are taking 30% or more of a persons gross sales to pay back these loans. Most business's can not afford that and the only way to stay in business is for them to keep taking loans until they go out of business. If a broker knows this and dos it anyway they are wrong. You are screwing over the banks who gave the first loans making what was a good deal a default and you put the merchant in a position they could not sustain. It is not double standards what is should be is common sense.

I have gotten far more deals declined because giving ANY more money would bring them to 30% of monthly deposits going to advances, then I have gotten 4th position deals funded. On this particular deal, even with our funding, all the dailys will be below 30%.

[MCNetwork]

I have gotten far more deals declined because giving ANY more money would bring them to 30% of monthly deposits going to advances, then I have gotten 4th position deals funded. On this particular deal, even with our funding, all the dailys will be below 30%.

It's funny how the blue chip funders have a guideline of <15% of gross sales going to advances, but the stackers think <30% of gross sales is okay. The problem is that the stackers don't know how to properly underwrite deals. smh