[AndyYSCISOdept]

Love that honesty Anon!

[anonymous]

"Get a snapshot of the cash flow without having to itemize their statements - this way I send file to the right lender the 1st time avoiding multiple credit checks and declines."

So then it does give you a nice analysis, rather than physically going through statements/manual uw?

For example, many banks don't show ave ledger balance. punching each ending balance into excel to come up with the ave is time consuming and a pita (especially if they aren't summarized at end and you have to go through all transactions, highlight daily endings, then go to excel). Is that something that is essentially re-formatted by decision logic into a standard, user friendly format? If so, that's certainly of value.

I just know from experience that the higher quality clients are reluctant to provide login. It's something I slowly prepare them for - they don't trust this industry to begin with. For your average merchant with a couple positions and decent financials, sure - all day. That just isn't really the kind of businesses we try to target. Would rather pass them off to someone new, sharpen my harpoon, and keep moving forward in search of a real rip.

[Triton]

Wasn't intended to be aggressive and no, I didn't, not reading all that lol, sorry. Just commented on the most recent portion of it.

Yup.

Also, about the signed app. Here is a pic of what our signatures look like. Haven't had a lender reject one yet...

Screen Shot 2016-01-13 at 11.55.36 am.jpg

[J.Celifarco]

I feel like if I tried to do all of this before submitting a deal I would get half as much done.. Get the deal in run through the banks quick get idea of cash flow and submit to the appropriate bank. I feel like everyone is trying to make this job so much more difficult then it needs to be. How many banks do you work with that you need this giant analysis to decide where to submit a deal.

[AndyYSCISOdept]

I feel like if I tried to do all of this before submitting a deal I would get half as much done.. Get the deal in run through the banks quick get idea of cash flow and submit to the appropriate bank. I feel like everyone is trying to make this job so much more difficult then it needs to be. How many banks do you work with that you need this giant analysis to decide where to submit a deal.

I think the other thing that bother me about all these other steps is what happens when you do all them and your favorite funder says, "sorry we want XYZ not the ABC you sent us"...wasted your time. Im as fond of technology and progress as the next man but sometimes it pays to take a step back an uncomplicated the process.

[anonymous]

Triton: That's really impressive actually.

Celifarco: Fortunately we are absolute killers on the phone and have some extra time on our hands. Only takes a couple dials lol.

We place the deal properly the first time and have direct access to underwriters and decision makers with most of our funders because they know we aren't pushing bs or asking for anything inappropriate. I try to know their uw as well as they do, and it isn't uncommon for me to catch something they miss and save a big deal, that initially came back a decline. So again, to each his own... But my way is better. It's almost like running a real finance company, crazy I know.

Worth noting that most bank statements are summarized very well, BofA for example. Takes about 5 minutes to complete that entire step. 10 minutes if there are a ton of pages and you have to scroll/skim through credits looking for anything out of the norm.

[YuliyaG]

"Get a snapshot of the cash flow without having to itemize their statements - this way I send file to the right lender the 1st time avoiding multiple credit checks and declines."

So then it does give you a nice analysis, rather than physically going through statements/manual uw?

You can go on Upwork and hire someone in eastern europe to crank out a simple solution where you can upload your decision logic data (XML) and get output; "good deal or bad deal" based on what you're looking for. It would likely cost you less than $500 too.

I think the other thing that bother me about all these other steps is what happens when you do all them and your favorite funder says, "sorry we want XYZ not the ABC you sent us"...wasted your time. Im as fond of technology and progress as the next man but sometimes it pays to take a step back an uncomplicated the process.

LOL. The point is that you are actually reducing steps. How can you still be in denial when a man here is explaining how he's turning 3 days into 10 minutes? How can you turn 3 days into 10 minutes by adding extra steps?

[J.Celifarco]

You can go on Upwork and hire someone in eastern europe to crank out a simple solution where you can upload your decision logic data (XML) and get output; "good deal or bad deal" based on what you're looking for. It would likely cost you less than $500 too.



LOL. The point is that you are actually reducing steps. How can you still be in denial when a man here is explaining how he's turning 3 days into 10 minutes? How can you turn 3 days into 10 minutes by adding extra steps?

I think what they are saying is that after talking to the merchant and a quick look at the statements that is enough info to get the job done quickly, efficiently, and without incurring extra cost. If you say it is extra steps or not fine, what I am saying is none of it is needed if you understand underwriting and what you are looking at when a deal comes in

[anonymous]

Yeah, I'm not entrusting an eastern european with no mca experience to underwrite the firm's files, but appreciate the info nonetheless. We outsource other things, but not that. It's a much different kind of shop, we rarely do anything higher than a 3rd and don't do $5-10K deals. Ave deal size is actually over $80K now. That said, it's a trade off, others make just as much doing smaller deals in volume, I just like big commissions and dealing with whales. Always have (in any industry), always will.

[anonymous]

and Celifarco, I completely agree. You can take one look and see if it's worth diving into or not. 1 out of every 5 probably get's the full treatment. If you are dealing with IOU/QS for your A-Paper you have to. They have a lot of concrete guidelines and you can easily save yourself the time it would take to have someone put it in the portal, wait for the decline, then actually take a hard look at it to send it to the right place.

One of the many people on this board have likely already sent it there and are in the process of closing out the client due to a blatant lack of effort on the initial broker's end.

[YuliyaG]

I think what they are saying is that after talking to the merchant and a quick look at the statements that is enough info to get the job done quickly, efficiently, and without incurring extra cost. If you say it is extra steps or not fine, what I am saying is none of it is needed if you understand underwriting and what you are looking at when a deal comes in

Ok. You request banks and wait for them for an average of 3 days. To each his own. If you've been in the industry for a long time you're probably doing well and don't want to "rock the boat." Re-training staff, yourself, aligning with the right funders is a huge time investment I'd imagine as the dollar cost is minimal. The more successful you are at one thing the less likely you are to invest in "improvements." All of this makes sense to me as it's basic human psychology.

I guess if you're established a good way to measure whether or not you should adapt is to determine how many deals have been lost on SPEED not rates. Once you have that number, crunching the other numbers become easier. At the end of the day this is not a style problem, it's a math problem.

My calculus is that we're going to shave 3 days in to 10 minutes every single chance we get...

[J.Celifarco]

and Celifarco, I completely agree. You can take one look and see if it's worth diving into or not. 1 out of every 5 probably get's the full treatment. If you are dealing with IOU/QS for your A-Paper you have to. They have a lot of concrete guidelines and you can easily save yourself the time it would take to have someone put it in the portal, wait for the decline, then actually take a hard look at it to send it to the right place.

One of the many people on this board have likely already sent it there and are in the process of closing out the client due to a blatant lack of effort on the initial broker's end.

I deal with MCC/bizfi for most of my deals so as long as the banks are OK and dont see more then 1 current position I am good. Like you 90% of my business if 1 positions so it doesnt take long to evaluate a deal

[anonymous]

My calculus is you're gonna get sh*t docs. Not to be mean, just real. Everyone acts like they are sooooooo busy counting money and have so much business that they don't have 10 minutes to review a set of docs. That is literally what our job is.

I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!!!

[J.Celifarco]

My calculus is your gonna get sh*t docs. Not to be mean, just real. Everyone acts like they are sooooooo busy counting money and have so much business that they don't have 10 minutes to review a set of docs. That is literally what our job is.

I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!!!

different strokes for different folks. For me I know how to approach the file and the close by how the opening, collection of docs and review of file goes. You learn a lot about a file just from how long it takes for someone to send docs or how they send them in. Thats me as I said everyone is different

[anonymous]

You learn a lot about a file just from how long it takes for someone to send docs or how they send them in - 100% agree there as well. Seems like we are on the same page for the most part.

[brokerCompany]

Who the hell waits 3 days to get an app and bank statement back? Those are clown merchant you are dealing with. Merchants that need 100k+ usually have there act together and have their CFO or accountant send everything in. My little website with online upload for bank statements and such and sign via DocuSign does great. I don't have to process through eastern Europe or china and have another layer going to 3rd party. I find that when you keep the information closer home and work with a few select funders you keep problems away and fund better.

[anonymous]

GCdNTfv.jpg

[YuliyaG]

My calculus is you're gonna get sh*t docs. Not to be mean, just real.

You're not being mean. It's natural for you to take this posture. It's either this, or quietly work behind the scenes to catch up. There's only two reactions anyone could logically have to this workflow. Deny, or adapt. Denying is faster, easier, cheaper on the front end.

Close your eyes and pretend it's not happening until you see it actually affect you. Then, you react. This happens millions of times a day in many different fields I'd imagine...

Regarding Europe and China and so forth... Our CTO is a Native New Yorker and was there from when we sketched stuff up on a napkin, to full implementation. I was presenting an option that may work for those who don't have the ability to pay a guy up to $100 / hr or more to sit across from him and write code to help him make more money. Essentially, when there is a will there is a way.

Who the hell waits 3 days to get an app and bank statement back? .

Not Triton or us, that's for sure.

[anonymous]

...you sell the docs, whether or not deal gets done is irrelevant to you. With all due respect, I feel like you're a little outside your wheelhouse here.

[J.Celifarco]

Who the hell waits 3 days to get an app and bank statement back? Those are clown merchant you are dealing with. Merchants that need 100k+ usually have there act together and have their CFO or accountant send everything in. My little website with online upload for bank statements and such and sign via DocuSign does great. I don't have to process through eastern Europe or china and have another layer going to 3rd party. I find that when you keep the information closer home and work with a few select funders you keep problems away and fund better.

thank you.. no need to reinvent the wheel. Keep it simple, be honest and straight forward with your merchants, work with a small group of banks that you trust, and fund as many deals as possible. period the end

[YuliyaG]

...you sell the docs, whether or not deal gets done is irrelevant to you. With all due respect, I feel like you're a little outside your wheelhouse here.

I think we nipped this particular question in the bud earlier in the thread? We're not selling docs because no one can afford that stuff, and now we desperately need every deal to get done in order to get paid. Because we can't close a door (according to Chambo), we're trying to rig the game in our favor as best as possible.

Not having the ability to close a door forces us to get to great, high quality second position opportunities 30 days before you can buy them elsewhere. Most of the time, you won't even find the stuff. If you tried.

Not having the ability to close a door forces us to also "sexy up" our sales cycle to compensate for this deficiency. We feel like when we combine the two approaches we have a good shot at closing those 300+ oppty's to add on capital, consolidate, etc. that we are uniquely positioned to get to first each month in 6 states...


Have a great day! And remain... Anonymous. It's to your own benefit.

[anonymous]

So you're giving advice to seasoned closers, when in reality you are just trying to figure out this closing stuff for yourself, as a result of the initial business plan going awry?

Done commenting this thread, no interest in getting into arguments here, counterproductive for everyone. bad energy.

[YuliyaG]

So you're giving advice to seasoned closers, when in reality you are just trying to figure out this closing stuff for yourself, as a result of the initial business plan going awry?

Hey there anonymous. I know what it feels like to jump into a conversation with nothing valuable to offer and end up feeling like you do or did... I can sympathize.

Also, it seems like self deprecation was lost on you. I wasn't giving advice to seasoned closers on how to close anything. I was poking fun at the fact that folks have said that we are selling leads because "we can't close a door."

I was saying that because we are so terrible at closing, we rig the game in our favor. I beat you on speed every time. I beat you on finding great paper every time. You beat me on closing, some of the time. That's how that works...

Most business plans do go awry... Indeed. Failure sucks. But fortunately in this business you can actually fail - profitably. If that makes sense?

That plan failed so bad that we decided to just suck it up and try to be the best little closers we can be. We'll never compare to you in terms of your closing ability.

[Karen37a]

A new potential client is not going to let you set them up for decision logic when you first meet them. I have clients that have been approved for loans and they have a hissy fit when you have to ask them to go onto decison logic, or to get the passwords for their accounts.

They do not TRUST the lenders nor merchant cash advance brokers. If they had a loan before its easier to do because they know the steps to getting a loan but I have had clients tell me " this seems strange" and put me on the phone with their bank (when sending them their to get documents because they cant log on for some unknown reason).

This is common in the industry and all sales people know this.

Also. I find it helps me out 100% when i have the experian credit report in hand for a few reasons.

1) Clients lie and say they dont have liens, never had a bankruptsy, their credit is 700, only to find out none of it is true. Some of them are turning a blind eye to their problems and some of them think they can slip by somehow. (conversations go like this. how the heck did you forget that you area convicted bank robber and have 1 million in liens on your credit report ....exaggerating for effect). In the end they are looking for a merchant cash advance with high costs, we are not getting the berst of the best, even though dodd frank has helped us out greatly

2) ( Sorry in advance to the lenders ) Its also helps when you are dealing with the lender and they are low balling your offer, they(some) will say ...well he doesnt have the greatest credit..he has a collection or 2. Then i reply.( after i laugh)..wow thats all their is "whew". I have had lenders exaggerate the credit condition of the client ...when I am looking right at the file, this stops all of that

So yes it helps that you run the credit in advance because you see who you are dealing with and you are not at the mercy of the lenders, you see if you want to continue wasting time on a bad file with a bad client, ALSO you are not sending your top lenders and assistants/processors, mounds and mounds of paperwork , that wont fund. getting everyone pissed at you so they think ...oh God here come those files from Karen again, they never close. Lets table them till we get around to processing them .

You can send the right lender the right type of file..one thats in their wheelhouse

Most importantly...my time is valuable. The simple cost of a credit report far outweighs the labor and manpower that went into processing and talking to a client with a dead or shady file . If i have a hunch that this client will never get more than a 4 -6 month loan, i can discuss this with him and do a soft close and prep him for the worst case scenario and see if he is still going to want to play ball.

Orr you can just send the files to companies who have a 14 -30 day policy on files, they can then be closed and in 30/60/90 days they have a great lead and most of the paperwork in.

Glorified Telemarketer

[Karen37a]

and to Yulia

Ive learned to never argue with liars because you cant win , they believe their own bs. You keep trying to talk your way into existence.There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

I know the ending to your story. I've recruited and trained 100's if not thousands on my merry adventure called Life . Ive been From Park ave to the park bench and back again, 3 go rounds, my last time to the top I am getting old and tired ( figuratively speaking ..before you say ( "i got you girl", come get you a cream cheese and jelly samitch, or a wheel chair ") .

When you fail like all the others before you and all the others after you. You will just blame someone else, or your mentor and say " well thats what this country is built on, people who make attempts to achieve something, Einstein failed over and over again."

What someone said is right about you. YOU CANT CLOSE, your mentor keeps admiting to it as well.

Do you know how annoying it is for someone to keep touting the latest greatest idea know to mankind ...all to avoid being the true Sales person??????????????

Sales people are the ones who get paid...we bring the money to the table, not the lenders, not the lead brokers..we keep you in business. Thats why we get paid the Rockstar commission.

( Sorry Lenders ..i love you..big smile)

Stop trying to act like everyone needs you, we all could duplicate what you are doing in a heartbeat. And the top lenders could do what you are doing as well.



We are not doing it because it doesn't work.Why you keep trying to sell your failed venture to seasoned pros is beyond me, its like im watching Shark Tank and you keep going on and on and they are laughing at you...

problem is you dont know it


IF IT WAS VERY EASY THEY WOULDNT PAY US THE BIG BUCKS