[Triton]

Now I understand why you sell leads and don't broker .
How many lenders are you cutting out by the fact that you are getting decision logic and not the bank statements . There is no way a broker can compete in today's market by handicapping themselves like that .
Also how many merchants will you lose on the first phone call when you request that right away ?

It seems to work just fine for us. We get the DL and explain that it only gives a 90 day snapshot of the bank statements but still need 6 months of bank issued statements to get an offer.

Works fine.

[YuliyaG]

Color me confused, but are you a broker or lead seller? In other threads where you promoted your "full package" leads for sale you indicated that you had no interest in chasing stips, dealing with merchants or selling deals, but your comments above speak to brokering deals. If you're doing both (brokering and selling "leads") how would you expect any potential buyer to have faith in the leads you're providing since it would appear that you are actually brokering the "fundable" deals and selling the leftovers.

Sorry about the confusion. No one can afford completed packages. So, we won't be offering those up for sale. So our "magical powers" (and common sense time saving approach) will be reserved for 100% brokering going forward.

It seems to work just fine for us. We get the DL and explain that it only gives a 90 day snapshot of the bank statements but still need 6 months of bank issued statements to get an offer.

Works fine.

You get it and are profiting from this approach. It's a shame other guys don't get it and are even indignant; "this can't and won't work." They are locking themselves out of not only money right now, but money later as well. Oh well... Guess it's more for us then right!?

[jotucker1983]

Yuliya and Triton,

But during the initial pre-qual? It's a totally different situation for a merchant to give their bank log-in to a broker or rep upfront during the pre-qual stage, v.s. giving it after they have been approved, signed a closing agreement, provided all stips for closing, and the only remaining aspect to be funded is for the Underwriter (not John Tucker the broker) to verify bank balances through Decision Logic or a secure telephone call.

A merchant doesn't always give 100% accurate answers during the pre-qual, but the answers work "enough" for me to get some type of picture of the merchant's standing. Plus, when they send over their bank statements I can analyze their cashflow to determine if they have NSF/ODs through the roof, or if they have relatively decent cashflow. Do merchants send over fake bank statements? Yes, it happens at times, but the vast majority aren't committing this level of fraud to where I as a broker, need to start requiring a Decision Logic during the initial pre-qual stage.

I don't know, I just think as a broker it's better to not get involved with pulling credit nor logging into someone's bank account, both of which increase your potential liability within the business dealings without necessarily translating to an increase in revenues.

[Triton]

Yuliya and Triton,

But during the initial pre-qual? It's a totally different situation for a merchant to give their bank log-in to a broker or rep upfront during the pre-qual stage, v.s. giving it after they have been approved, signed a closing agreement, provided all stips for closing, and the only remaining aspect to be funded is for the Underwriter (not John Tucker the broker) to verify bank balances through Decision Logic or a secure telephone call.

A merchant doesn't always give 100% accurate answers during the pre-qual, but the answers work "enough" for me to get some type of picture of the merchant's standing. Plus, when they send over their bank statements I can analyze their cashflow to determine if they have NSF/ODs through the roof, or if they have relatively decent cashflow. Do merchants send over fake bank statements? Yes, it happens at times, but the vast majority aren't committing this level of fraud to where I as a broker, need to start requiring a Decision Logic during the initial pre-qual stage.

I don't know, I just think as a broker it's better to not get involved with pulling credit nor logging into someone's bank account, both of which increase your potential liability within the business dealings without necessarily translating to an increase in revenues.

I understand your position but there is a difference between logging into someone's bank account and using Decision Logic. I have automated my system to have signed documents and 3 months (90 days DL) within 10 minutes of speaking to a client instead of sending them a pdf app and waiting for them to:
-print it
-fill it out
-scan/fax it
-log into their bank
-download 6 months of statements
-and email all that back to me.
Or if they do not have a scanner they have to fax it, which is ALWAYS a mess and requires an additional 20 minutes of my time cleaning them up, having them re-fax certain pages etc. And that's just waiting to get the file back which 7 out of 10 times takes a few days. And during that time, 5 other brokers have called him and promised the world.

If you were using that method and I was one of those 5 other brokers calling, I would have his file in 10 minutes while you wait 3 days for it. By then I have him an offer and can fund him.

[Michael I]

Triton
Are you a broker or lender ?

[dpFund]

Why not have your merchant pull their own credit with fico scores, will not hurt them in anyway.
That is readily available to anyone and while not the same as a credit report for lender it will give you a good idea how your merchant looks and what other inquiries are on the report.

While every lender is different and some rely heavily on their own credit, I agree. As a lender that does not rely heavily on credit, I ask my clients to run their own credit (typically suggesting creditchecktotal.com) so I will not ding their credit.

[YuliyaG]

Yuliya and Triton,

But during the initial pre-qual? It's a totally different situation for a merchant to give their bank log-in to a broker or rep upfront during the pre-qual stage, v.s. giving it after they have been approved, signed a closing agreement, provided all stips for closing, and the only remaining aspect to be funded is for the Underwriter (not John Tucker the broker) to verify bank balances through Decision Logic or a secure telephone call.

A merchant doesn't always give 100% accurate answers during the pre-qual,

When we did Buynance, it was built to be sort of like a "lending tree" for MCA. That startup failed miserably. However, what did not fail was our ability to have merchants "self serve." So our workflow looked like this:

1. Complete page one.
2. Complete page two.
3. Bank Login (we integrated with the decision logic API).
4. We'd run our math and "disqualifiers". Ex; a line of code may have said; "Here's how to compute average daily balance, when you come to average daily balance, make sure it's $X; else; disqualify..." There were a lot more complicated computations but that gives you the general gist.
5. They'd get a follow up e-mail with stips and a link to upload them...

We had some very very expensive TOS and Privacy Policy drawn up so merchants knew what they were getting into. Decision has their own terms for logins they generate outside the API. They are very broker friendly. I'd encourage you to have your lawyer connect with them.

Our own CTO was absolutely convinced no one would go to our site and ultimately complete banking. They did. I was skeptical. The CEO was certain. He was right.

Then... there were times where folks didn't want to go through the site and wanted to call in. While on the phone we'd tell them (not ask) that decision logic was a necessary step in the process. Did 100% bite, no. But we were betting those that were quick to run were likely to not qualify anyway.

Outside of the more obvious reasons, pulling Decision Logic is also important if you:

1. Have aspirations to raise your own capital. Having an excel workbook + your own charts for instance may serve you better vs. going through mounds of PDF's and faxes.

2. Re-targeting lost deals. You're going to lose sometimes. But a bank refresh + the instant ability to see where they are allows you to win renewals or consolidate later for instance.

[YuliyaG]

I understand your position but there is a difference between logging into someone's bank account and using Decision Logic. I have automated my system to have signed documents and 3 months (90 days DL) within 10 minutes of speaking to a client instead of sending them a pdf app and waiting for them to:
-print it
-fill it out
-scan/fax it
-log into their bank
-download 6 months of statements
-and email all that back to me.
Or if they do not have a scanner they have to fax it, which is ALWAYS a mess and requires an additional 20 minutes of my time cleaning them up, having them re-fax certain pages etc. And that's just waiting to get the file back which 7 out of 10 times takes a few days. And during that time, 5 other brokers have called him and promised the world.

If you were using that method and I was one of those 5 other brokers calling, I would have his file in 10 minutes while you wait 3 days for it. By then I have him an offer and can fund him.

If you were near me, I'd hug you. You get it. Kill it this year. I bet our processes are identical! Here's a secret that worked for us. If they have a smart phone they can send and MMS message using Twilio if fax and e-mail are too "hard" for them!

[Triton]

Triton
Are you a broker or lender ?

Broker.

[Michael I]

Broker.

do you work with on deck ?

[Triton]

do you work with on deck ?

I have a referral agreement with them. Not a full ISO. Why do you ask?

[Michael I]

I have a referral agreement with them. Not a full ISO. Why do you ask?

because that is the number 1 reason i don't do decision logic . they wont accept the statements like that and i do a ton with them

[Triton]

because that is the number 1 reason i don't do decision logic . they wont accept the statements like that and i do a ton with them

Gotchya.

Remember though, that I ask for 6 months of bank issued statements. I get the DL initially to get the merchant invested into the deal. It's hard to not take my phone call if you just gave me a signed app and bank info on the first phone call. We've all seen it many times, where you get a client on the phone, create the interest then never hear from them again. That doesn't happen anymore.

[YuliyaG]

Gotchya.

It's hard to not take my phone call if you just gave me a signed app and bank info on the first phone call.

Yessss!!!!!!! This ^^^^^

Especially important when you can't close a door.

[jotucker1983]

Yuliya and Triton,

Well, if it's working for you guys then great lol. With so much fraud going on in the industry by rogue brokers, I just don't see a significantly large amount of merchants allowing agents to log into their bank account that early on in the process just to "save time" from pulling off/emailing back PDF bank statements.

When my merchants have to do a Decision Logic at the tail end of the process for bank verification on certain deals, they usually throw a "fit" and I have to explain the situation to them a couple of times. But what calms them down is the fact that we are just about wrapped up with this being the final stage and the communication of the bank log-in is strictly between themselves and the Underwriter. Plus, once they are funded that day, then they can change their password immediately the next day.

But if they have to start giving their bank log-in upfront to every broker that calls them promising the world, that opens up all types of security risks. In my opinion, that will decrease your conversion ratio, not increase it. But again, that's just my opinion.

[anonymous]

Yuliya and Triton,

Well, if it's working for you guys then great lol. With so much fraud going on in the industry by rogue brokers, I just don't see a significantly large amount of merchants allowing agents to log into their bank account that early on in the process just to "save time" from pulling off/emailing back PDF bank statements.

When my merchants have to do a Decision Logic at the tail end of the process for bank verification on certain deals, they usually throw a "fit" and I have to explain the situation to them a couple of times. But what calms them down is the fact that we are just about wrapped up with this being the final stage and the communication of the bank log-in is strictly between themselves and the Underwriter. Plus, once they are funded that day, then they can change their password immediately the next day.

But if they have to start giving their bank log-in upfront to every broker that calls them promising the world, that opens up all types of security risks. In my opinion, that will decrease your conversion ratio, not increase it. But again, that's just my opinion.

I agree with John Tucker. Yes, that just happened.

[Funder Mark]

Not so sure actually. Think of the advantages.
1: The merchant is far more likely to accept your eventual offer, because he already put some work into working with you.
2: The funders can do a better underwriting job, knowing they have legitimate information.
3: The broker sees right away the client's current financial situation, and knows if a deal should go to an A company, a D company, or somewhere inbetween.
4: Saves time everywhere, and allows you to spend your time on deals that have a higher chance of getting funded, and you as the broker getting paid.

[YuliyaG]

Yuliya and Triton,

Well, if it's working for you guys then great lol. With so much fraud going on in the industry by rogue brokers, I just don't see a significantly large amount of merchants allowing agents to log into their bank account that early on in the process just to "save time" from pulling off/emailing back PDF bank statements.

When my merchants have to do a Decision Logic at the tail end of the process for bank verification on certain deals, they usually throw a "fit" and I have to explain the situation to them a couple of times. But what calms them down is the fact that we are just about wrapped up with this being the final stage and the communication of the bank log-in is strictly between themselves and the Underwriter. Plus, once they are funded that day, then they can change their password immediately the next day.

But if they have to start giving their bank log-in upfront to every broker that calls them promising the world, that opens up all types of security risks. In my opinion, that will decrease your conversion ratio, not increase it. But again, that's just my opinion.

Takes guts in a belief in what you're doing for sure. At the end of the day, you're leveraging off the faith and trust in decision logic. When they click the link in the SMS they get sent, they are inputting their info into a platform run by decision logic and I'm sure decision logic legal is covering their rear ends. If the stuff hits the fan (fraud and so forth) they're the first ones on the list to be interviewed I'd imagine.

The fact that Triton was so generous in offering his guidance is great. He's compressing an average of 3 days into 10 minutes. What does that do to your bottom line? Framing is important too. How you frame what you're doing and why you're doing it def comes into play... With all this saturation any edge you can get... use it.

[Triton]

Yuliya and Triton,

Well, if it's working for you guys then great lol. With so much fraud going on in the industry by rogue brokers, I just don't see a significantly large amount of merchants allowing agents to log into their bank account that early on in the process just to "save time" from pulling off/emailing back PDF bank statements.

When my merchants have to do a Decision Logic at the tail end of the process for bank verification on certain deals, they usually throw a "fit" and I have to explain the situation to them a couple of times. But what calms them down is the fact that we are just about wrapped up with this being the final stage and the communication of the bank log-in is strictly between themselves and the Underwriter. Plus, once they are funded that day, then they can change their password immediately the next day.

But if they have to start giving their bank log-in upfront to every broker that calls them promising the world, that opens up all types of security risks. In my opinion, that will decrease your conversion ratio, not increase it. But again, that's just my opinion.

I think the key thing I keep hearing is that you are saying that they are giving us their bank login info. They are not doing that. They are logging into Decision Logic. The only person who ever sees their username and password is them and their bank. We only get a "Read-Only" access to the last 90 days of transactions. The risk is very small and the security involved is very strict. I cannot do anything with their money, I cannot send wire transfers to my personal account or transfer money anywhere.

It is a lot more secure than how some lenders request actual bank login info. That's a security risk...

[Triton]

Not so sure actually. Think of the advantages.
1: The merchant is far more likely to accept your eventual offer, because he already put some work into working with you.
2: The funders can do a better underwriting job, knowing they have legitimate information.
3: The broker sees right away the client's current financial situation, and knows if a deal should go to an A company, a D company, or somewhere inbetween.
4: Saves time everywhere, and allows you to spend your time on deals that have a higher chance of getting funded, and you as the broker getting paid.

My point exactly. I've saved HOURS by instituting this process.

[anonymous]

What do you do about the TR? What if I want 6 months in statements? What if the funder most appropriate for the deal requires a physical signature on app?

You guys are making it sounds like DL underwrites the deal and spits out a speadsheet showing vitals. If that's the case, sign me up.

"Now Merch, I know you get a dozen of these calls each day, but I'm much different, don't worry. Just log into my portal, type in your banking password, and I'll see what we can do."

I'm sure the real whales, hidden among the rest, will line right up for that...

...to each his own

[FUNd]

Pulling credit is actually very cheap and as long as you are not a general variety scumbag (I know that's a stretch for some people that run ISOS in this space), it's easy to get signed up. You need a background check, a personal credit check, and a site inspection, and you are ready to go. It's about $5 a report. Certainly worth the expense to have a valuable tool to launch cannon fodder at the merchant who wants to flex nuts over his "rate", when he can't even pay his $500 limit Capital One secured card on time.

[Triton]

What do you do about the TR? What if I want 6 months in statements? What if the funder most appropriate for the deal requires a physical signature on app?

You guys are making it sounds like DL underwrites the deal and spits out a speadsheet showing vitals. If that's the case, sign me up.

"Now Merch, I know you get a dozen of these calls each day, but I'm much different, don't worry. Just log into my portal, type in your banking password, and I'll see what we can do."

I'm sure the real whales, hidden among the rest, will line right up for that...

...to each his own

I'd love to see where I said anything even hinting to DL underwriting a deal. It also appears as though you have not read all of my posts on this topic, especially one of the first ones where I mentioned that I require 6 months of bank issued statements in order to get an offer. We use DL for 3 reasons.

1. Get them invested into the deal
2. Get a snapshot of the cash flow without having to itemize their statements - this way I send file to the right lender the 1st time avoiding multiple credit checks and declines
3. Find out if they have been recently funded - which you know happens a lot and the merchant does not tell you.

And I can see how stupid it would sound to say your little elevator pitch there if that's actually what we are asking of them.

[Triton]

Pulling credit is actually very cheap and as long as you are not a general variety scumbag (I know that's a stretch for some people that run ISOS in this space), it's easy to get signed up. You need a background check, a personal credit check, and a site inspection, and you are ready to go. It's about $5 a report. Certainly worth the expense to have a valuable tool to launch cannon fodder at the merchant who wants to flex nuts over his "rate", when he can't even pay his $500 limit Capital One secured card on time.

Or the merchant who has an $87 tax lien for 2 years. Who doesn't pay an $87 tax lien?? Smh...

[anonymous]

Wasn't intended to be aggressive and no, I didn't, not reading all that lol, sorry. Just commented on the most recent portion of it.