[nwarshaw]

So Chambo - actual market forces or the market driven by us?
Meaning if a merchant who is not bank-able could get $50k from me or you and both of us required the switch or no $'s, then would we not drive the market?

I understand that some folks had no idea what they were or are doing and in that instance, the merchant finishes the advance, counts it as a learning experience and then switches to someone else to renew and get a real processing rate that is not jacked up.

I still do not buy the fact that merchants drove this, I still think we did and we could find a way to drive it back or nudge it back and only offer ACH to those industries that do not take any credit cards or at least not much.

My bet is only that not all funders would join that movement and try to grab market share by advertising that you do not have to switch, thus again giving away a valuable rev source - no different than making our product a commodity by dropping the rate, trying to grab market share, and then going out of business as a lot of the lower cost folks did.

Just seems to me that we walked away from the processing rev source, continue to fight each other on rates by lowering them, extending the turns further and further out, which for all of us is less money and greater risk.

There is an association, and I just wonder if that association talks about issues like this and tries to help the industry? I know why the association was originally formed, but I wonder what it is doing to help the industry funder's and its ISO's now?

[Chambo]

So Chambo - actual market forces or the market driven by us?
Meaning if a merchant who is not bank-able could get $50k from me or you and both of us required the switch or no $'s, then would we not drive the market?

I understand that some folks had no idea what they were or are doing and in that instance, the merchant finishes the advance, counts it as a learning experience and then switches to someone else to renew and get a real processing rate that is not jacked up.

I still do not buy the fact that merchants drove this, I still think we did and we could find a way to drive it back or nudge it back and only offer ACH to those industries that do not take any credit cards or at least not much.

My bet is only that not all funders would join that movement and try to grab market share by advertising that you do not have to switch, thus again giving away a valuable rev source - no different than making our product a commodity by dropping the rate, trying to grab market share, and then going out of business as a lot of the lower cost folks did.

Just seems to me that we walked away from the processing rev source, continue to fight each other on rates by lowering them, extending the turns further and further out, which for all of us is less money and greater risk.

There is an association, and I just wonder if that association talks about issues like this and tries to help the industry? I know why the association was originally formed, but I wonder what it is doing to help the industry funder's and its ISO's now?

If you and I both made an ultimatum...with today's competition, merchant would just go out and find someone who would do it without switching.

I find these days on the deals over $10K, it is a selling process on the switching part as much as the cash advance part. However, if I see the merchant has decent rates and there isn't going to be much wiggle room, I don't bother. I'd rather have 100% of one revenue source.