[Chambo]

Could be, but in the guy's defense, how is that any of his fault if he signed an ISO agreement with WBL and sends the deal to a WBL email address. Doesn't mean they condone this behavior or even knew about it but doesn't clear them of being liable.


EDIT: What John said...

but it also means they are going to do some due diligence to see what actually happened, and not just take the word of a ranting rep who has already figuratively spent the money

[Sean Cash]

WBL will figure this out. At this point they are aware of your grievance. I know because I was on the same flight with Chris Pepe.

A lot of their execs are here in san fran so they might be a bit slow in reacting but they are aware...

[Chambo]

but he wants his money NOW!!!!!

[jotucker1983]

This is just my speculation here, I hope nobody gets upset with me if I'm wrong on anything lol, but it appears as though this is what happened based on JJJDDD's side of the story only:

- JJJDDD signed up as a direct Broker to WBL.

- JJJDDD sent in a deal to WBL, but the deal somehow ended up in one of the hands of the Broker Shops that WBL just acquired.

- The Broker Shop takes the deal, closes the deal, gets paid on the deal, and then one of the representatives from that Broker Shop ends up no longer active with said Broker Shop and WBL. So when JJJDDD comes calling asking where is his cut, WBL says to contact the Broker Shop even though JJJDDD was never signed up as a sub-broker to a Broker.

The confusion on the file from JJJDDD's point of view, is that the Broker Shop was using a WBL email address, which I guess is now required from WBL as apart of the "acquisition model," which is similar to how Zach on this forum immediately changed his email/profile to be a representative of WBL following his acquisition. So JJJDDD thought he submitted the deal to WBL, but he actually submitted the deal to one of WBL's Brokers, and that Broker closed the deal and shut JJJDDD out of it. Totally unfortunate situation if everything that was said was indeed factual.

Again, this is just speculation, but if my speculation is correct, then this would shed some light on some of the inefficiencies of WBL's acquisition model because if you are acquiring an Independent Broker Shop, but leaving them as an Independent Contractor to do whatever they please (while they work under your name), then that creates all types of issues including putting WBL at risk for the actions of said Independent Shop, without even having direct control over said Independent Shop.

This is similar to how the Bankcard industry works with ISOs, where due to the Card Brand rules, they ask their Independent Agents (that they have no control over) to market themselves as direct employees of said ISO, which opens up said ISO to all types of legal issues.

Instead what should happen, is that Independent Agent incorporate their business and promote themselves under their own brand name, but include a note within their proposal as well as when speaking to clients, on what ISO or what Lender they are going to take the client to based on what they feel is "best" for the client. On the Bankcard side, the Card Brands just want to make sure the merchant knows who they are signing the contract with, so as long as that's disclosed when discussing merchant processing with said merchant, then everything is fine.

If WBL's model is what it appears to be, it creates confusion in the marketplace (again, just my speculation here) on exactly who works for who, and in what capacity and control.

[Funder Mark]

I think this might be a good time for everyone to take a step back and breathe. Right now Sean says that the big people at WBL are aware of the situation. They have zero reason to try and steal the commission, and right now I am sure they want nothing more then to make this whole thing go away.

[jjjddd]

Sean that has been our hope all along but this has gone on for over 30 days ... wbl has all the emails on there server so they know we got screwed by them and or there employee . I would love to come on here and tell everyone that WBL is a stand up shop that makes things right. But the truth is we have been patient it has been almost 30 days (March 4th) since this deal funded it has been one more excusae after another. First it was give us a few days. Then that Billy is stealing, then that they fired Rafael, then that we uncovered over 11 similar situations. But today this Gary person said basically "oh well" and downplayed the whole situation. We will be sending our attorney her retainer this week and we plan to file a lawsuit by next week if this doesn't get solved. If they want to make it right, we will gladly tell everyone they made it right and if we have to litigate i am sure we will prevail......

[Miller192]

but he wants his money NOW!!!!!

By all accounts, he's entitled to it. I'm sure you'd be pretty upset too if you were going through what this guy is going through.

[MCNetwork]

Too bad it took negative press in the forum for them to address this issue.

[J.Celifarco]

Too bad it took negative press in the forum for them to address this issue.

unfortunately that is what it takes sometimes

[ghostinthemachine]

Whoa

[jjjddd]

i guess the comments on this forum actually didnt do much. I reqally dont think they care to fix it and the lawsuit is the only thing they will answer to because WBL is still ghost on here and we havent heard directly from them either.

[omegafund]

It will make brokers think twice about dealing with them. Unfortunately most ISO agreements will side heavily with the lender and will make it difficult to file or even win a suite. You may have to chalk it up to an expensive lesson learned and move on. Unless your attorney and you think th r cost is worth it. I wish you best as we have all lost and won some

i guess the comments on this forum actually didnt do much. I reqally dont think they care to fix it and the lawsuit is the only thing they will answer to because WBL is still ghost on here and we havent heard directly from them either.

[jjjddd]

Omegafund , new to this forum but our team has been around for a while, specially the marketing side. We are ready to spend 20k if we have to to go after the 10k we are righfully owed. There is no doubt we will prevail. There is way more to sue on than just the iso agreement, there is Civil theft, Fraud on the inducement wtc. wtc. and some of this counts call for triple damages plus attorneys fees. So even if its to stand up for like you say "all that have lost some" I dont know if they have ever screwed anyone but they screwed us. It will be an expensive 10k .... we wont let it go.

[MCAVeteran]

Omegafund , new to this forum but our team has been around for a while, specially the marketing side. We are ready to spend 20k if we have to to go after the 10k we are righfully owed. There is no doubt we will prevail. There is way more to sue on than just the iso agreement, there is Civil theft, Fraud on the inducement wtc. wtc. and some of this counts call for triple damages plus attorneys fees. So even if its to stand up for like you say "all that have lost some" I dont know if they have ever screwed anyone but they screwed us. It will be an expensive 10k .... we wont let it go.

Is the ISo agreement organized under the laws of deleware by any chance?

[jjjddd]

no the ISO agreement is organized in NY

[MCNetwork]

I heard through the grapevine that Rafael is now "on his own." Presumably that means he started his own ISO.

[jjjddd]

wow ! Rafael is crook..... well i mean I dont know he claims when confronted that Billy and WBL got paid.... soon we will all know the truth when we set them all for depo

[Zach]

Sounds like this Rafael robbed jjjddd for a deal, WBL fired him, and now Rafael is funding his stolen deals.

As some of you may know, my company was recently acquired by WBL. Before this acquisition and decision to sell, we did extensive research on the management team as well as the company itself. There was NOTHING that we could find that gave us any inkling of deception or shadiness; the worst thing we found was an article saying that their rates are too high (which is obviously par for the course for our space).

After meeting with, questioning, and speaking freely with each department head and director with WBL, my partner and I left with no concerns whatsoever. This group has an incredible amount of foresight and integrity. I will put my own reputation on the line in defense of this company, because I am confident that there is no possibility that the company itself "screwed over" an ISO. It has never happened, and never will.

Skimming this situation from the outskirts leads me to believe this happened:

1. Shady rep contacts ISO's that he knows will send deals
2. Shady rep tells ISO to send the deal to a reputable domain name (wbl.com) rather than using a gmail address
3. Shady rep receives deal from ISO, puts it on a flash drive and submits it to CAN Capital from his home computer
4. Shady rep funds deal
5. ISO gets angry with WBL, who never received commission for said deal, and fires rep upon finding out the situation

I am not here to argue, but this looks like a textbook "backdoor" situation to me. If my guess is true, then WBL did its part by firing the shady rep, and cannot (and should not) repay commissions that it never received.

Take everything I'm saying here with a grain of salt, since I flat-out don't know anything about this deal except what was posted.

[Chambo]

Only problem with that argument Zach, is if the rep used WBL websites, computers, emails....and was employed by WBL at the time.

won't matter what they received...or didn't receive.

I just think that there needs to be an investigation on behalf of WBL to get to the bottom of this. then, pay this rep here as per ISO agreement with WBL, or tell him "see you in court" and be done with it.

Too much one sided ranting at this point with no rebuttals. ALWAYS three sides to a story. Your side, my side....and the truth

[MCNetwork]

This may appear to be a "backdoor" situation, but the relevant facts are as follows:

1. ISO signs ISO Agreement with WBL
2. ISO submits deal to WBL employee who has a valid WBL email address
3. Deal is funded by CAN Capital.
4. ISO never received commission.
5. WBL claims that they need to sue Billy Morrissey for the commission.

There is a clear paper trail here that all points to WBL so regardless of the in-house shenanigans going on with Billy's crew, they are 100% liable to pay the ISO the commission. I'm pretty sure a judge would agree with that. If the ISO submitted the file to a gmail address and not a WBL address, then that would be a different story.

[jjjddd]

Zach sounds pretty defensive here ! the truth is clearly WBL is buying s**t shows full of shady people. WEll when you BUy and or Merge with s**t, you are responsible for the s**t........ Even if all you say is the truth that Rafael acted alone.... he still did it under the WBL umbrella using there office space, servers, emails, name and good will.... which makes WBL responsible and thats the best case scenerio..... who knows who else is involved and as per WBL themselves they claim we uncovered a HUge situations so I think Zach you are here alone.... Im sorry it might be to late for you tied by association

[J.Celifarco]

Sounds like this Rafael robbed jjjddd for a deal, WBL fired him, and now Rafael is funding his stolen deals.

As some of you may know, my company was recently acquired by WBL. Before this acquisition and decision to sell, we did extensive research on the management team as well as the company itself. There was NOTHING that we could find that gave us any inkling of deception or shadiness; the worst thing we found was an article saying that their rates are too high (which is obviously par for the course for our space).

After meeting with, questioning, and speaking freely with each department head and director with WBL, my partner and I left with no concerns whatsoever. This group has an incredible amount of foresight and integrity. I will put my own reputation on the line in defense of this company, because I am confident that there is no possibility that the company itself "screwed over" an ISO. It has never happened, and never will.

Skimming this situation from the outskirts leads me to believe this happened:

1. Shady rep contacts ISO's that he knows will send deals
2. Shady rep tells ISO to send the deal to a reputable domain name (wbl.com) rather than using a gmail address
3. Shady rep receives deal from ISO, puts it on a flash drive and submits it to CAN Capital from his home computer
4. Shady rep funds deal
5. ISO gets angry with WBL, who never received commission for said deal, and fires rep upon finding out the situation

I am not here to argue, but this looks like a textbook "backdoor" situation to me. If my guess is true, then WBL did its part by firing the shady rep, and cannot (and should not) repay commissions that it never received.

Take everything I'm saying here with a grain of salt, since I flat-out don't know anything about this deal except what was posted.

Zach, I agree with everything you say except the not paying commission. The deal was submitted to WBL and funded by a at that time employee of WBL this makes them responsible for paying the commission

[MCAVeteran]

Zach, I agree with everything you say except the not paying commission. The deal was submitted to WBL and funded by a at that time employee of WBL this makes them responsible for paying the commission

A forensic accounting would clear the guessing game of who got paid. That's called discovery. Hopefully it doesn't go that far- the ach by the funder went to a specific party bank account

[Chambo]

Either way, the two parties involved seem to be digging into the trenches. Let's just close this thread down until the truth comes out. Until that time passes, it is one side of crib yelling at the other side of the crib, instead of directing their energy to mom to take care of the diaper

[Miller192]

Either way, the two parties involved seem to be digging into the trenches. Let's just close this thread down until the truth comes out. Until that time passes, it is one side of crib yelling at the other side of the crib, instead of directing their energy to mom to take care of the diaper

It's a shame we haven't heard from the other side of the crib but I agree.

We certainly aren't going to send anything to WBL. The last thing I ever want to do is have to fight over a commission.