[Chambo]

- Not recruiting people who have no prior sales experience, marketing experience, B2B experience, etc. to sell the product without properly training them on the product if they are W-2. If they are going to be 1099, then questions should be addressed on their business plan, prior experience in running their own business, their plan to finance their office, their legal resources, their accounting resources, their marketing resources, etc. This helps to reduce down the amount of people coming into the industry that are ill-prepared. Competition is good, but when your "competition" can't spell "merchant cash advance," and do nothing but flood a merchant's telephone line trying to sell a product they can't spell, all that does is stop the merchant from taking calls from anybody. This hurts the growth of the industry, hurts the growth of your office, and the person doing the sales call is wasting their time as they won't be making hardly anything. They would be MUCH better off working at Burger King to be quite honest with you.

- Promoting Ethics.

.

This would eliminate 3/4 of the reps out there currently. Heck, half the folks out there never went to college, and another chunk barely got through high school! Throw in the ext mortgage and stockbroker exiles.....

[J.Celifarco]

predatory vampire squid... I have to say CHAMBO you do have a way with words

[Chambo]

would you have preferred "Feces Dwelling Maggots"?

[J.Celifarco]

thats a toss up.. I say both work

[MCNetwork]

Seems like even blue chip companies are stacking now. I have a merchant who had a Rapid Advance deal and GRP Funding stacked him with a 5 month second position. Is nothing sacred anymore?

[J.Celifarco]

Seems like even blue chip companies are stacking now. I have a merchant who had a Rapid Advance deal and GRP Funding stacked him with a 5 month second position. Is nothing sacred anymore?

if that happened I am willing to bet it was a mistake and not done on purpose.. I work with GRP and I can tell you they definitely dont stack

[ISELLCASH]

I saw the same the same thing. GRP gave the merchant a 2nd through IBIS. The contract said IBIS on it but GRP shows in the bank statement. Apparently it's a free for all and companies like GRP will fund whatever they can get their hands on.

[GRP Funding]

Seems like even blue chip companies are stacking now. I have a merchant who had a Rapid Advance deal and GRP Funding stacked him with a 5 month second position. Is nothing sacred anymore?

We don't fund many 5 month deals. Pretty sure you have us confused with someone else. Our avg is closer to 12/13 months.

I saw the same the same thing. GRP gave the merchant a 2nd through IBIS. The contract said IBIS on it but GRP shows in the bank statement. Apparently it's a free for all and companies like GRP will fund whatever they can get their hands on.

Who is IBIS? We don't stack or work with merchants that have a history of stacking.

[MCNetwork]

My apologies Brian. The merchant statement identified the ACH debit as "IBIS CAPITAL GRP MERCHADV 855-758-6947" and I thought it meant GRP Funding. I don't know who IBIS Capital is but they are the culprit.

[ISELLCASH]

Pulls show IBIS GRP MERCHADV thought they were an extension of GRP. Sorry Brian, I was in shock when I saw this. I should have done my research before posting.

[GRP Funding]

My apologies Brian. The merchant statement identified the ACH debit as "IBIS CAPITAL GRP MERCHADV 855-758-6947" and I thought it meant GRP Funding. I don't know who IBIS Capital is but they are the culprit.

Gotcha. That's def not us. I googled the phone number 855-758-6947 and a company in Stony Point, NY comes up. Ibis Capital Group. No relation to GRP.

Pulls show IBIS GRP MERCHADV thought they were an extension of GRP. Sorry Brian, I was in shock when I saw this. I should have done my research before posting.

No worries. Glad this was easy to clear up.

[Joseph Esparza]

TIME + SATURATION dispels most arguments. Case in point, those that took position against the notion (of stacking,) not too long ago are reinventing their thinking [as per this thread and many others.] How many new businesses are born per day, in the US? How many new ISO companies/salespersons are born daily? How many first positions can there possibly be? How many ISOs have the Underwriting staff/capacity in place that can provide 1st position funding that can address the dynamics involved with that type of lending? Name the ISO's, outside just a handful, that can defend their 1st position origination(s) with the Back-End-Marketing Campaigns blanketing the industry by some of the larger players..., and then the answer may become clearer...Ground wars are best won by Airstrikes...the same kind that took down the banks.

[Chambo]

time + saturation dispels most arguments. Case in point, those that took position against the notion (of stacking,) not too long ago are reinventing their thinking [as per this thread and many others.] how many new businesses are born per day, in the us? How many new iso companies/salespersons are born daily? How many first positions can there possibly be? How many isos have the underwriting staff/capacity in place that can provide 1st position funding that can address the dynamics involved with that type of lending? Name the iso's, outside just a handful, that can defend their 1st position origination(s) with the back-end-marketing campaigns blanketing the industry by some of the larger players..., and then the answer may become clearer...ground wars are best won by airstrikes...the same kind that took down the banks.

what?!?!

[Chambo]

TIME + SATURATION dispels most arguments. Case in point, those that took position against the notion (of stacking,) not too long ago are reinventing their thinking [as per this thread and many others.] How many new businesses are born per day, in the US? How many new ISO companies/salespersons are born daily? How many first positions can there possibly be? How many ISOs have the Underwriting staff/capacity in place that can provide 1st position funding that can address the dynamics involved with that type of lending? Name the ISO's, outside just a handful, that can defend their 1st position origination(s) with the Back-End-Marketing Campaigns blanketing the industry by some of the larger players..., and then the answer may become clearer...Ground wars are best won by Airstrikes...the same kind that took down the banks.

so because it is cheaper to stack, than to learn the business, then pick up the phone and sell.....we should all jump on board?

Because it is "so expensive for ISO's to incorporate the proper dynamics", we should all jump on merchants with 4-5-6 positions like maggots on road kill?

Heck, with THAT mentality, why don't we all just go out on the corner and sling crack for $25,000 a week? Others are doing it, no barrier to entry.....PARTY!

[Quickfunder]

I just want to know where do you find leads who aren't stacked? 85% of what I get in now seems to be stacked deals I can't do anything with.

[Chambo]

and, of course, money.....

[FCF Fund]

I just want to know where do you find leads who aren't stacked? 85% of what I get in now seems to be stacked deals I can't do anything with.

Get away from the UCC would be your first start, if youve worked sales before than the standard process would be to target your audience and figure out creative ways to get your product / message out there that translates into conversions.

Sales is a art and science and everyone has a different approach. Do some online research on different marketing campaigns, fine tune your campaign, test and re-evaluate effectiveness of said campaign. Rinse Wash Repeat!

[J.Celifarco]

TIME + SATURATION dispels most arguments. Case in point, those that took position against the notion (of stacking,) not too long ago are reinventing their thinking [as per this thread and many others.] How many new businesses are born per day, in the US? How many new ISO companies/salespersons are born daily? How many first positions can there possibly be? How many ISOs have the Underwriting staff/capacity in place that can provide 1st position funding that can address the dynamics involved with that type of lending? Name the ISO's, outside just a handful, that can defend their 1st position origination(s) with the Back-End-Marketing Campaigns blanketing the industry by some of the larger players..., and then the answer may become clearer...Ground wars are best won by Airstrikes...the same kind that took down the banks.

yes first position deals may cost more to acquire but the amount of money you can make on a first position compared to 2nd 3rd, etc is much higher. Not to mention if you have good client control by the time you factor in refi commissions the extra cost upfront is well worth it.

[CreditGuy]

What I've observed is that in the early years almost every lender filed a UCC to signal to other lenders that they had an advance out to a borrower, and when a lender received an application that showed a UCC filing they would request a payoff. This was essentially a voluntary and good faith effort and most of the early players cooperated. There were of course the usual retention tactics when calling in for the payoff (transferring to sales, delaying remittance of the payoff, etc.), but by and large if the borrower was forceful enough about wanting to go elsewhere the lender would produce a payoff. Then some of the larger lenders started using aliases to mask their real identity for one (or all) of three reasons: to make it harder to know who to request a payoff from thus preserving the deal on their books, to prevent other lenders from drafting on their underwriting, and to prevent their borrowers getting called by other funders who are calling UCC lists. In response to those phenomenon, lenders responded with more complex UCC masking and fewer UCCs filings altogether. This makes it increasingly difficult for lenders to identify MCAs using the UCC filings.

The bank statements are still a tool that can be reviewed for activity in an attempt to spot MCAs, but if they are on a split or lockbox and the lender doesn't have the processing data, this gets harder to spot again. Further, if the lender doesn't have access to the processing data AND doesn't have the banks that reflect the funding deposit, it gets harder still. Also, merchants share some blame as well. I've seen many merchants run multiple accounts and only furnish the banks for the one that doesn't show the MCA activity. Separate processing and cash accounts, or some even setup accounts that just have the MCA activity flowing through them and/or do bank account changes after funding.

Between lenders trying to preserve their portfolios and retain customers, merchants trying to get as much capital as possible, and scammy funders willing to stack and draft on the initial UW, there are multiple reasons why lenders are missing UCCs. It all boils down to a lack of trust and ethics though, and almost everyone is to blame.

[stevenk]

Consolidation Example:
Merchant has 3 existing advances with balances of 7k, 11k and 10k – paying $1,169 a day total. We offer the merchant 60k 1.41 110 days to payoff all three advances (28k) and net approximately 32k, also bringing their daily payments down to $769, saving the merchant $400 a day! In cases such as this, the merchant must always net 50% or greater of the advanced amount



Steven Kamhi
Phone 516-444-3499
Cell -516-314-6887
Fax 1-516-765-9184
STEVENK@NULOOKCAPITAL.COM

[Achfund]

Chambo- be sensitive, some of us here would be taking a pay cut if we were only getting 25k a week.

[Quickfunder]

So who will do these types of consolidations if cashflow and statements look good?

[dpFund]

So who will do these types of consolidations if cashflow and statements look good?

This is quite a long thread but thought I would jump in. While I'm not going to be able to answer all of the questions, I can tell you that as a direct lender, we do a LOT of consolidations. About 75% - 80% of the deals I see are not doable, because the merchant has been stacked so badly they are totally underwater. I'll leave it for the pundits to determine if it is the merchant's fault or the thirsty brokers (I think fault lies in both realms).

When we do fund consolidations (about $4M on the books right now), we extend payments out 12-18 months. It is rare that the MCA lenders provide a discount (or if so, not much of one) so yes, the merchant is paying interest on interest. But in most situations, I can get the merchant's payment down to about one third of what they are paying (we do monthly payments, not daily which is a relief for merchants).

Secondly, we allow the merchant to pay us off any time after six months. No fees, penalties or interest. Just remaining principle.

And yes, we have our own way of preventing them from stacking.

For the right merchant that wants out of the expensive daily payments, it can be a huge relief, and can literally turn their business around.

It might seem counterintuitive, but for the right merchant, I am not as concerned about the number of positions, since I am going to end up in first position when it is all done (I've funded a couple in the last few months that had eight...yes eight positions)

Happy to continue this discussion with anyone who is interested.

Hope this helps.

Best,

Dan Page
Funding Strategy Partners
dan@fundingstrategypartners.com
Direct: (303) 938-8280

[Chambo]

Devin, that my friend, is the million dollar question, that no other ISO in their right mind is going to tell you (they want them all for themselves)

Might want to re-examine your lead sources and put a little more time and effort into it.

[Quickfunder]

I really appreciate that but maybe someone can private msg. me and we can work together on deals.

This is my second job, not my first. I won't be doing it that much longer but it would help in the meantime.

I don't have advertising money at the moment, so marketing campaigns are probably out.