[Broker-Funder]

Hi all,

Got an interesting case here that involved a 5 way conversation with myself, my in house VP of UW, my CFO and Cucumbers Co CEO and our Rep in order to try to resolve the situation but the Co CEO didn't want to make it right. For Clarity, we are a broker who has an in house funding side with a separate CRM and we hold our own deals on balance sheet if we can do it. We do not accept other brokers submissions or fund ISO business.

Back in April we funded a 500k deal at Cucumber. 1.49, over 100 days, 10% fees, paying 12% standard. No problems. Commission paid. Merchant paying fine. Normal process.

We end up getting the deal in early around mid June and merchant asking for more money etc etc. We tell Cucumber the merchant looking for more do you want to renew or maybe do a self stack to hold the merchant off. Cucumber declined.

Beginning of July rolls around and we get a call from the merchant that Cucumber refi'd his balance. He owed about 275k left off the total and merchant netted about 8k in the bank. Cucumber did a 315k deal with 10% fees and extended the term about 2 months since apparently the merchant was asking for help on payments and didnt make a payment for a week or so, so in their eyes it was considered a 'default'. But they had no problem doing a 'no cash out refi' basically while wacking him with 10% fees and they were basically made whole in terms of dollars out on the original deal since the merchant paid back so much. So once we got word about the renewal (merchant sent us the contract). We called our Rep to say 'WTF' and our rep didnt even know the deal got funded since he gets paid 2% commission on all deals funded from his ISOs so at this point now the Rep is upset since he feels his own company kept him in the dark.

We end up having the above call like I original mentioned. My VP of UW presented the facts from a UW/Collection perspective and since he also used to manage ISOs as well in the past, but essentially saying how Cucumber did a no cash out refi, wack the guy with 10% fees, you extend the renewal 2 months and you dont pay us anything? While also screwing over their own rep since they kept him in the dark about the deal (as per the ISO agreement we are entitled to 12%). The CEO said he agrees with the logic and understands but in their mind it was a 'default' so no commission was to be paid. If they would of funded it and sent us an email saying 'hey we renewed your deal, here is 4-5%" then there is no story and we say 'thank you for renewing it for us' (no complaining about points). Which Libertas did on a similar situation for us on another file.

We are now at the point of our attorney sending them a letter and going the legal route. The CEO said in response initially to the letter "once the deal pays off, we will pay you 4%". So wait, we are entitled to 12%, you smack the guy with a fee, and if you get completely whole and make all that juice, you only want to pay us only 4%? why wouldn't it be 12% in that case? But their rep has no comment and as they continue to keep him in the dark as well but the response from Cucumber is quite crazy given how they worked this deal behind everyone's back and they got caught and cant just pay commission. Would have been nice to have reached out to asset with the request for assistance from the client given we came back to them for a add on a week or so prior with the deal instead of stacking them... What's everyone else's opinion?

P.S. after asking around , it seems this is the norm for Cucumber when it comes to renewals and not paying.

Would be happy to report back if they end up making it right or even remove the post.

[FCF Fund]

Hi all,

Got an interesting case here that involved a 5 way conversation with myself, my in house VP of UW, my CFO and Cucumbers Co CEO and our Rep in order to try to resolve the situation but the Co CEO didn't want to make it right. For Clarity, we are a broker who has an in house funding side with a separate CRM and we hold our own deals on balance sheet if we can do it. We do not accept other brokers submissions or fund ISO business.

Back in April we funded a 500k deal at Cucumber. 1.49, over 100 days, 10% fees, paying 12% standard. No problems. Commission paid. Merchant paying fine. Normal process.

We end up getting the deal in early around mid June and merchant asking for more money etc etc. We tell Cucumber the merchant looking for more do you want to renew or maybe do a self stack to hold the merchant off. Cucumber declined.

Beginning of July rolls around and we get a call from the merchant that Cucumber refi'd his balance. He owed about 275k left off the total and merchant netted about 8k in the bank. Cucumber did a 315k deal with 10% fees and extended the term about 2 months since apparently the merchant was asking for help on payments and didnt make a payment for a week or so, so in their eyes it was considered a 'default'. But they had no problem doing a 'no cash out refi' basically while wacking him with 10% fees and they were basically made whole in terms of dollars out on the original deal since the merchant paid back so much. So once we got word about the renewal (merchant sent us the contract). We called our Rep to say 'WTF' and our rep didnt even know the deal got funded since he gets paid 2% commission on all deals funded from his ISOs so at this point now the Rep is upset since he feels his own company kept him in the dark.

We end up having the above call like I original mentioned. My VP of UW presented the facts from a UW/Collection perspective and since he also used to manage ISOs as well in the past, but essentially saying how Cucumber did a no cash out refi, wack the guy with 10% fees, you extend the renewal 2 months and you dont pay us anything? While also screwing over their own rep since they kept him in the dark about the deal (as per the ISO agreement we are entitled to 12%). The CEO said he agrees with the logic and understands but in their mind it was a 'default' so no commission was to be paid. If they would of funded it and sent us an email saying 'hey we renewed your deal, here is 4-5%" then there is no story and we say 'thank you for renewing it for us' (no complaining about points). Which Libertas did on a similar situation for us on another file.

We are now at the point of our attorney sending them a letter and going the legal route. The CEO said in response initially to the letter "once the deal pays off, we will pay you 4%". So wait, we are entitled to 12%, you smack the guy with a fee, and if you get completely whole and make all that juice, you only want to pay us only 4%? why wouldn't it be 12% in that case? But their rep has no comment and as they continue to keep him in the dark as well but the response from Cucumber is quite crazy given how they worked this deal behind everyone's back and they got caught and cant just pay commission. Would have been nice to have reached out to asset with the request for assistance from the client given we came back to them for a add on a week or so prior with the deal instead of stacking them... What's everyone else's opinion?

P.S. after asking around , it seems this is the norm for Cucumber when it comes to renewals and not paying.

Would be happy to report back if they end up making it right or even remove the post.

Be sure to check the fine print on notice of commission changes, most agreements state it must be in writing BEFORE said change. If they didnt follow procedure to their own ISO agreement you may have them dead to rights. File suit for treble damages, legal fees etc.

[ThorCapitalGroup]

I thought the vegetable named funders were all trustworthy...…..

[abfunders]

You should have submitted to pickle juice

[Broker-Funder]

Be sure to check the fine print on notice of commission changes, most agreements state it must be in writing BEFORE said change. If they didnt follow procedure to their own ISO agreement you may have them dead to rights. File suit for treble damages, legal fees etc.

we reviewed it with the lawyer, they dead to rights already. Reason we moving forward. Just funny after our lawyer sent the info, he gets a response saying they will pay 4% when its paid in full. Makes no sense if they make all that money, factor on factor the guy and charged him another 10% on the renewal but you want to pay us 4%? If they paid us 4% after the renewal and sent us a funded email out of no where, then we dont even have a conversation. We say 'thank you' and on to the next deal. We wouldnt even say 'i thought we make 12%' or some ****. But now the CEO says pay 4% at the end? Talk about 'doing the right thing' which he said on the initial phone call he always does but he keeps his own rep in the dark and screws him out of $6000 commission. Stand up guy.

[Chambo]

You will probably be seeing more and more instances of this, as UW'ing gets tighter, funds find their credit lines more and more restricted, and stacking ad nauseum becomes more commonplace, because it is the only game in town due to tightening.

Everyone's a superstar & friendly when things are going to plan. It's when those pesky detours hit that you find out the true character of the people you are dealing with

The silly part of the above story is also that it sounds like it could have been easily resolved if they had just kicked in a few points. So penny wise, pound foolish...and a nice big write up on Daily Funder

[FCF Fund]

we reviewed it with the lawyer, they dead to rights already. Reason we moving forward. Just funny after our lawyer sent the info, he gets a response saying they will pay 4% when its paid in full. Makes no sense if they make all that money, factor on factor the guy and charged him another 10% on the renewal but you want to pay us 4%? If they paid us 4% after the renewal and sent us a funded email out of no where, then we dont even have a conversation. We say 'thank you' and on to the next deal. We wouldnt even say 'i thought we make 12%' or some ****. But now the CEO says pay 4% at the end? Talk about 'doing the right thing' which he said on the initial phone call he always does but he keeps his own rep in the dark and screws him out of $6000 commission. Stand up guy.

Hope you put the screws on him, some of these funders run free doing crazy stuff like this. They need to be an example of.

[Zonefund]

You should have submitted to pickle juice

Cucumber advance is a funder. They compete in 60-100 day deals strong and fund big deals.

Sucks they did this to the poster. Its the mca space.

[mcabroker1]

Who is the CEO?

[goatFunding]

Hi all,

Got an interesting case here that involved a 5 way conversation with myself, my in house VP of UW, my CFO and Cucumbers Co CEO and our Rep in order to try to resolve the situation but the Co CEO didn't want to make it right. For Clarity, we are a broker who has an in house funding side with a separate CRM and we hold our own deals on balance sheet if we can do it. We do not accept other brokers submissions or fund ISO business.

Back in April we funded a 500k deal at Cucumber. 1.49, over 100 days, 10% fees, paying 12% standard. No problems. Commission paid. Merchant paying fine. Normal process.

We end up getting the deal in early around mid June and merchant asking for more money etc etc. We tell Cucumber the merchant looking for more do you want to renew or maybe do a self stack to hold the merchant off. Cucumber declined.

Beginning of July rolls around and we get a call from the merchant that Cucumber refi'd his balance. He owed about 275k left off the total and merchant netted about 8k in the bank. Cucumber did a 315k deal with 10% fees and extended the term about 2 months since apparently the merchant was asking for help on payments and didnt make a payment for a week or so, so in their eyes it was considered a 'default'. But they had no problem doing a 'no cash out refi' basically while wacking him with 10% fees and they were basically made whole in terms of dollars out on the original deal since the merchant paid back so much. So once we got word about the renewal (merchant sent us the contract). We called our Rep to say 'WTF' and our rep didnt even know the deal got funded since he gets paid 2% commission on all deals funded from his ISOs so at this point now the Rep is upset since he feels his own company kept him in the dark.

We end up having the above call like I original mentioned. My VP of UW presented the facts from a UW/Collection perspective and since he also used to manage ISOs as well in the past, but essentially saying how Cucumber did a no cash out refi, wack the guy with 10% fees, you extend the renewal 2 months and you dont pay us anything? While also screwing over their own rep since they kept him in the dark about the deal (as per the ISO agreement we are entitled to 12%). The CEO said he agrees with the logic and understands but in their mind it was a 'default' so no commission was to be paid. If they would of funded it and sent us an email saying 'hey we renewed your deal, here is 4-5%" then there is no story and we say 'thank you for renewing it for us' (no complaining about points). Which Libertas did on a similar situation for us on another file.

We are now at the point of our attorney sending them a letter and going the legal route. The CEO said in response initially to the letter "once the deal pays off, we will pay you 4%". So wait, we are entitled to 12%, you smack the guy with a fee, and if you get completely whole and make all that juice, you only want to pay us only 4%? why wouldn't it be 12% in that case? But their rep has no comment and as they continue to keep him in the dark as well but the response from Cucumber is quite crazy given how they worked this deal behind everyone's back and they got caught and cant just pay commission. Would have been nice to have reached out to asset with the request for assistance from the client given we came back to them for a add on a week or so prior with the deal instead of stacking them... What's everyone else's opinion?

P.S. after asking around , it seems this is the norm for Cucumber when it comes to renewals and not paying.

Would be happy to report back if they end up making it right or even remove the post.

I had higher risk funders... (who I trust) renew aggressive deals without alerting me right away... and eithe payed me at principal or back end the full points.

The idea is, you want to work with funders who understand what you bring to the table... and are not looking at their ISO agreements.... to figure out how to not pay you.

[Matt_primecap]

I could've sworn this happened with one of my deals at this company... I knew it! Telling my guys at my office now, thank you.

[JayS]

They seemingly just added 200k juice for 2 months. The original 500k was almost paid off. Hack funder. pay the man his 12.

[TheUnderwriter]

The Funder almost whole on the original deal. 8k new money out the door and 10% fees (again). Nice deal for Cucumber. How they cant pay 5-7% is pretty insane. Unless you going to tell me the merchant not paying right now but if the merchant paying fine currently, no reason the CEO/funder cant just pay the commission.

I wonder if the funder would of paid anything if the merchant never sent the contracts to the ISO. Deal pays in full and I bet the commission wouldnt of been paid. The CEO would be like 'We got away with that deal' ha! And we got away with not paying our own rep! Ha'

[CucumberCapital]

Hey guys, it's Adam from Cucumber. I apologize for the way you feel about this deal. We take pride in honesty and transparency, and I'm sure you guys would agree as I believe that's why you continue to submit deals and fund with us, even till this day. We understand that ISOs can feel disappointed about certain situations; however, there is much more to the story regarding this deal, as you are aware, however we are not here to discuss these matters publicly and I believe your attorney would also agree and suggest strongly against it. Again, I acknowledge that you are upset and sour about this deal, but you did not allow for further discussion. You requested that all communication should be directed through your attorney, and that's what we are currently doing. If you have any further questions we are always happy to discuss.

[TheUnderwriter]

Hey guys, it's Adam from Cucumber. I apologize for the way you feel about this deal. We take pride in honesty and transparency, and I'm sure you guys would agree as I believe that's why you continue to submit deals and fund with us, even till this day. We understand that ISOs can feel disappointed about certain situations; however, there is much more to the story regarding this deal, as you are aware, however we are not here to discuss these matters publicly and I believe your attorney would also agree and suggest strongly against it. Again, I acknowledge that you are upset and sour about this deal, but you did not allow for further discussion. You requested that all communication should be directed through your attorney, and that's what we are currently doing. If you have any further questions we are always happy to discuss.

Should of just paid the broker initially, any reason you guys juice the merchant 10% and kept your own rep in the dark too? But you talk about 'honesty and transparency'?

[Matt_primecap]

lol

[fundingsmbs]

You will probably be seeing more and more instances of this, as UW'ing gets tighter, funds find their credit lines more and more restricted, and stacking ad nauseum becomes more commonplace, because it is the only game in town due to tightening.

Everyone's a superstar & friendly when things are going to plan. It's when those pesky detours hit that you find out the true character of the people you are dealing with

The silly part of the above story is also that it sounds like it could have been easily resolved if they had just kicked in a few points. So penny wise, pound foolish...and a nice big write up on Daily Funder

this^ the cost of capital to some funder's isn't going to allow them to operate, and thus, backdooring and side deals with their close isos to remarket leads is taking place to make up for the revenue handicaps. hold on to your hats, there should be some strong turbulence ahead BY end of q4 /q1 '24.

[piffunder]

Cucumber does good honest business. Never a problem on renewals. Always reached out to me and never client directly. The ISO rep would have reached out to your multiple times before contacting the merchant

[Robinhood21]

Cucumber does good honest business. Never a problem on renewals. Always reached out to me and never client directly. The ISO rep would have reached out to your multiple times before contacting the merchant

doesnt look like they did here

[Zonefund]

Cucumber does good honest business. Never a problem on renewals. Always reached out to me and never client directly. The ISO rep would have reached out to your multiple times before contacting the merchant

Trust me you should submit elsewhere.

Read the post.

Read adams reply. He says there's much more to it.

The iso didn't even do them wrong. He should've stacked after being told he would make 4 points.

[freeprocessing]

I am the last person to give a funder the benefit of the doubt because whatever they are accused of is probably accurate in some aspect. With that being said, I will over here and I am sure there is more to the story. Adam said that the ISO is still submitting deals to them. I personally know him, and I just have to stick up for him here as he is one of the most honest people I know. I can say that confidently without knowing the entire story because that is just they type of person he is. Side note-everybody makes fun of the name but you have to admit, genius marketing because how can you forget a name like that.

[BR-Nightmare]

I am the last person to give a funder the benefit of the doubt because whatever they are accused of is probably accurate in some aspect. With that being said, I will over here and I am sure there is more to the story. Adam said that the ISO is still submitting deals to them. I personally know him, and I just have to stick up for him here as he is one of the most honest people I know. I can say that confidently without knowing the entire story because that is just they type of person he is. Side note-everybody makes fun of the name but you have to admit, genius marketing because how can you forget a name like that.

Lets let them have their moment in court and leave it alone for now, no need to add fuel to the fire.

This is like the time "Ryan" was called out and it ended up having some validity.

[freeprocessing]

Lets let them have their moment in court and leave it alone for now, no need to add fuel to the fire.

This is like the time "Ryan" was called out and it ended up having some validity.

Agreed. Again, I don't think it has and that is why I said something even though I generally wouldn't go out on a limb without knowing the details but in this case I felt comfortable knowing the type of person Adam is. With that being said, I will leave the rest to them.

[Broker-Funder]

I am the last person to give a funder the benefit of the doubt because whatever they are accused of is probably accurate in some aspect. With that being said, I will over here and I am sure there is more to the story. Adam said that the ISO is still submitting deals to them. I personally know him, and I just have to stick up for him here as he is one of the most honest people I know. I can say that confidently without knowing the entire story because that is just they type of person he is. Side note-everybody makes fun of the name but you have to admit, genius marketing because how can you forget a name like that.

We do not submit to them. We have not in over a few weeks. We were still submitting to them after the initial phone call hoping it would be resolved but that never materialized. We removed them from our CRM so our Admin team cannot even submit to them if our Reps wanted to. The original post is exactly what happened and the cucumber rep can verify it so Adam mentioning that there is 'more to the story' isnt true since multiple people were involved in the phone conversation and the fact the post was created in August as opposed to in June or July would show we gave plenty of time to make it right but nothing materialized. And again, their own rep was left in the dark and lost 2% commission on the deal.

[TheUnderwriter]

Remembering this post. I saw a Cucumber advertising email today. Hopefully they paying!