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08-16-2018, 10:05 PM #1
Has anyone else heard this?
So this is not the first time hearing this..
Merchants stating- Unknown lender (probably recent DBA created), are funding accounts without any consent whatsoever (i.e no signed contract, no COJ, list goes on) , and if payments are stopped, COJ is threatened to be put in place, freeze accounts etc.
I know first response would be that merchant probably doesn't know what's flying, but these are merchants whom we've worked with in the past and knew exactly what they were doing.
I get if the was a one time story, but this has been reoccurring.
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08-16-2018, 10:27 PM #2
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- May 2017
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- 21
Had a merchant tell me this happened to him. Didn't know whether to believe him or not...
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08-16-2018, 10:47 PM #3
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- Jul 2015
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- 1,202
This is utterly unreal. I wish we couldn't picture this happening, but can it really be going on out of desperation to make sales quotas? No way, but nothing is out of the realm of possibility I suppose. Geez...
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08-16-2018, 10:59 PM #4
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- Oct 2016
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- 4,318
This is some Armenian Mafia ****.
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08-17-2018, 09:09 AM #5
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- Dec 2015
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- 617
Richard Moseley Sr. Was just sentenced to 10 years in prison a few days ago. He痴 73 yrs old and had a 220 million dollar payday lending business. One of his many violations/crimes was he was giving payday loans to people that made an inquiry regarding the process, but never actually applied/signed up. Then his company would issue the loan, and every month they would collect the interest, and leave the principle there, which had the loanee, who never borrowed the money in the first place, paying interest in perpetuity.
To be fair, Even the people who legitimately borrowed the money went through the secret of forevermore interest program with their principle as well.
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08-17-2018, 10:53 AM #6
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- Dec 2013
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- 4,713
Marcus Clapman | Business Development | Cresthill Capital
(High Commissions Payout Group)
覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧
Tel: 917-521-6528 | Fax: 212.671.1473
Email: bizdev@cresthillcapital.com
http://www.cresthillcapital.com
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08-17-2018, 11:17 AM #7
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- Jun 2016
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- 416
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08-17-2018, 12:52 PM #8
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Posts
- 4,713
And I am able to find out who is behind any entity.[/QUOTE]
Thats extremely impressive!!! your hired !Marcus Clapman | Business Development | Cresthill Capital
(High Commissions Payout Group)
覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧
Tel: 917-521-6528 | Fax: 212.671.1473
Email: bizdev@cresthillcapital.com
http://www.cresthillcapital.com
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08-17-2018, 02:59 PM #9
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08-17-2018, 03:17 PM #10
- Join Date
- Feb 2018
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- 1,349
Who is this mystery company dba/corp name. if this is true, their games won't last long. Without signed contracts nobody will be liable for the repayment. same with no coj, how do you chase someone with no signed coj. bump....
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08-20-2018, 06:29 PM #11
They have it all- Contracts, COJ etc..
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08-20-2018, 06:31 PM #12Karen37aGuest
If they Funded with no contract they can just default...not a smart move
If they place a freeze on the account they can have it removed instantly if no real contract is present and the company that did it will lose their ability to perfect liens and also cojs and freeze accounts going forwardLast edited by Karen37a; 08-20-2018 at 07:06 PM.
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08-20-2018, 09:03 PM #13
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- Jan 2014
- Posts
- 1,380
how do they fund with no voided check? where are they sending the money if they never collected anything? im pretty sure merchant sees a incoming wire for "x" amount in their bank account they are going to find out who the hell sent it. and if they don't want it they return the wire. Most merchants know exactly what they are doing and know how to work the mca system. Just like in subprime mortgages back in the day client always wants to say they didn't know anything but they signed the dam 100 page mortgage contract, with title agent in their face going over everything number by number. If they knew they didn't sign any proper documentation or authorize anything, if they Lender threatens they wont take wire back then merchants would just say f u then and close their account and take the money. Let them come after them for a COJ that was never legally signed.
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08-20-2018, 09:38 PM #14Karen37aGuest
I agree with this.Something is off.
People did say say they didnt sign a 100 page mortgage contract in front of 10 witnesses during the housing meltdown lol Just like shred investors all of a sudden become a poor old part time nursery school teacher/ zen instructor, who was taken advantage of on the stockmarket when they lose money and want it back
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08-20-2018, 09:47 PM #15
It's not off, it's shady practice
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08-21-2018, 07:05 AM #16Karen37aGuest
Be careful because if a merchant decides to sue or take any type of action they can drag you into the mix.( not sure when you fit in, )
If there is ever regulation and you had a Fiduciary Duty...they could also sue you for your personal money and assets.
Fiduciary Duty works almost like a COJ...you are automatically liable. ( personally, not shielded from a company LLC or inc)
**I am glad I am not in a 100% Fiduciary position anymore, 30 years was way too long. ( I still adhere to compliance guidelines)Last edited by Karen37a; 08-21-2018 at 07:30 AM.
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08-21-2018, 07:40 AM #17Karen37aGuestJust like in subprime mortgages back in the day client always wants to say they didn't know anything but they signed the dam 100page mortgage contract, with title agent in their face going over everything number by number
Sachip if you lived through this...like some others have(the same thing happened when the stock market crashed). What do you think would happen if the merchant had this "regulation" get out of jail free card?
I know whats going to happen...massive defaults and an avalanche of epic proportions even on A paper and processing and lawyers looking to capitalize and making it a new cottage industry
__
add..West coast.... the "save yourself kill them all" quote from your fav hero....I can understand you now ( I guess you want me to cheer for regulation now...only a few of us will be left standing with the BIG billion dollar companies, debt relief and lawyers)
And those" crash test dummy" brokers wont survive it, they just do not realize it yet.
****I guess they do realize it. so they want everyone to go down with them so they can say ....see it wasn't me that was unsuccessful it was the business model. Guess what. I am still going to be standing making money have done so since age 17 in finance contracts . You will never get the chance to say it...everLast edited by Karen37a; 08-21-2018 at 08:30 AM.
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08-21-2018, 11:03 AM #18jotucker1983Guest
So what's that word we've been discussing again? Oh, that's right, it's called "regulation". Any more proof this industry is a Wild Wild West?
- You have criminals/thugs like Ricky Dennis, fresh off 12 year prison runs, who are actively working in this business by soliciting merchants, collecting sensitive data, etc.
- You have merchants out here being the victim of multiple stacks that equate to 40% or more of their monthly gross going to payback high costing merchant cash advances, which leads many of them to file bankruptcy
- You have brokers running around adding PSF fees of 10 points or more, on top of already a high costing program for the merchant in general
- You have co-brokers getting ripped out of commissions
- You have brokers in general getting ripped out of commissions
- You have brokers being back-doored
- You have funders being ripped off by unscrupulous brokers
- Scroll through the Rip Off Reports and you will see an assortment of MCA related companies
- Now add to the list, that merchants are on the hook for "advances" that they never actually signed up for
If we don't act, we are all going to be featured on an episode of American Greed in a moment.Last edited by jotucker1983; 08-21-2018 at 11:08 AM.
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08-21-2018, 11:12 AM #19
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- Aug 2016
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- 831
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08-21-2018, 11:15 AM #20Karen37aGuest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eclbaC3q94k
it did not have the effect Longshanks planned... and I Elizabeth rode out to pay homage to the big banks and regulators
You have bled with Wallace...now Bleed with meLast edited by Karen37a; 08-21-2018 at 11:46 AM.
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08-21-2018, 12:34 PM #21jotucker1983Guest
I respect your opinion, however, I don't think your opinion is based on sound reasoning?
- Please provide explanation on how making sure people like Ricky Dennis is blocked from entering the industry, making sure merchants aren't being stacked to 40% of their gross in payments, making sure brokers get paid, and making sure merchants have fair pricing standards......somehow is "bad" for the space?
- To your point about "leveling a playing field", there's no way to "level" a playing field that is structured based on leveraged strategic resources. The 20% of companies/brokers with the strategic resources will still be the ones making the vast majority of revenues, while the 80% without said resources will still be the ones barely scraping by.
- Regulation doesn't "level a playing field", regulation helps rid the industry of the bad actions listed above and in turn, helps to "protect" the duration of the space. If the space continues to operate like a Wild Wild West, the long term duration of it will be significantly impacted.
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08-21-2018, 12:35 PM #22Karen37aGuest
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08-21-2018, 02:23 PM #23
- Join Date
- Aug 2016
- Posts
- 831
I do not know ricky dennis and that is why that part was not quoted. I will go through each one and we can discuss it out.
making sure merchants aren't being stacked to 40% of their gross in payments- How do you decide those guidelines, Facts if those numbers put everyone out of business than pearl and yellowstone will not be the power houses they are now .Banks will give a guy 100 times his "gross monthly". Merchants know what they can handle and what they can not . I have a nail salon that has been paying over 40% for years now.(his real gross with cash is way higher)
making sure brokers get paid- To every rule there is loopholes that the same funders who do not pay will figure out a legal way not to pay.
merchant having a fair pricing standard- All this will cause is getting rid of alternative lending where all the thousands of merchants i have helped would just close up . Do you think yellowstone can keep there doors open if they have to do 15% . do you think on deck or rapid will be in business if they needed to compete with the banks at 3%
John you are to straight forward thinking thinking if there will be rules they will weed out the ****. Those guys will put there wife , mother,friend,neighbor.
Someone came to my office door offering me $500 a month to use my address for amazon and that i might get a return here or there. To me this means he already got thrown off amazon from his address ,ten different family members another ten friends and now is going door to door which he will 100% get someone and continue to screw people over.
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08-21-2018, 02:56 PM #24Karen37aGuest
Here just in case you do not see the other thread
China Locks Down Financial District As P2P Lending Implodes
https://www.pymnts.com/news/internat...ending-losses/
Collapse of Chinese peer-to-peer lenders sparks investor flight ( all the negativity cause people to flee, ive said it 100 times, like shorting a stock or placing a rumor...which is illegal)
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08-21-2018, 06:25 PM #25jotucker1983Guest
See this thread here.
There's far too many cases of merchants being put out of business or running into cash flow issues, when the 4 - 6 advance stacks that they have equate to 40% or more of their monthly gross sales going to payback cash advances.
A case-by-base 2nd position stack in and of itself can be questionable, but it can usually work depending upon all of the circumstances at play such as cashflow, sales, the fact that the 1st position funder didn't provide as high of an approval as they could have, etc.
But there's absolutely no reason why a merchant should have 4 - 7 advances stacked on top of one another. The only reason this is happening is because as I mentioned here, the industry is based on leveraged resources and the brokers fighting at the bottom are fighting for scraps to pay their monthly expenses. As a result, they just stack and stack merchants who otherwise have no CLUE what they are doing. The merchants are very unsophisticated.
And those funders will be banned going forward as a result. Right now as a broker, when you fund a deal, all you can do is pray to the powers that be that you get paid. You might get paid, you might not get paid. There's no centralized police nor regulation that is there to make sure you get paid. Thankfully, the vast majority of the time, we get paid....but it's the fact of the matter that if we don't get paid, there's really no good recourse for the smaller shop.
We would have to get together to determine what "fair" pricing looks like for A, B, C, D, and E Paper. Either we can do it together as an industry, or you can have the U.S. Government do it, which one do you prefer?
On the flip side, I'm not sure how anyone can justify a merchant paying a 1.50 over a 5 month term with the broker getting 10 points on the deal, then adding another 10 points in a PSF fee. That's not "special sales ability", that's taking advantage of an unsophisticated merchant that's desperate for funding.
So I have no intentions of being a jerk when I state this lol, but I feel that those who are fighting so hard against these "basic/common sense" forms of policing, are the ones that these "basic/common sense" forms of policing would begin to police.
You made the statement of: "Well John, you only want regulation because that would make it easier for you to generate business," and the statement alone is revealing because it's almost like you are saying that by doing RIGHT by the client, a broker can't generate business? It's almost like you are saying that business can only be generated when:
- A broker has a recent criminal history
- A broker adds 10 points in a PSF on the side, most of the time without the merchant really understanding what they are paying
- A broker stacks the living hell out of a merchant and nearly drives him out of business
- A broker rips off a co-broker that sent me a deal by not paying him his share of commission
- A broker rips off a funder by getting them to fund a merchant he already knew was shady
Surely this industry can still exist and make money without these practices taking place, right?Last edited by jotucker1983; 08-21-2018 at 06:28 PM.
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