[mikem]

If my funder funds a merchant and that merchant paid down and took another funding 6 months later from that same funder by directly contacting him, does that funder owe me renewal commission? Is there any justification to not pay renewal commissions in such a scenario?

If he does owe me commission, is there any time span long enough that he wont need to pay?

[Michael I]

most iso agreement write exactly how long it is your deal after merchant is fully paid off . I have seen ones that give a day , 30 days , 90 days . no one is going to give forever

[abfunders]

Fee agreements say that the client will pay a percentage of all proceeds (from closing) for the X years following initial funding. Generally about 2. Gotta stay on top of the client, it seems.

With a good relationship from the lender, they might give you an override.

LOC like factoring, or Bluevine / Fundbox, are built in commissions for as long as the lender exists.

[QuickFund]

If my funder funds a merchant and that merchant paid down and took another funding 6 months later from that same funder by directly contacting him, does that funder owe me renewal commission? Is there any justification to not pay renewal commissions in such a scenario?

If he does owe me commission, is there any time span long enough that he wont need to pay?

My ISO's all make the same and sometimes more, as long as the deal is still strong.

[ryan $]

Getting paid less on renewals is just motivation to flip/move the deal.

[fundingsmbs]

watch out for renewals. not everyone is legit on paying renewals. some co appear to only want to fund once and than push to get paid off early. if you really want to build a book of business, part of your dialogue from the onset, needs to focus on renewals. we have seen horrific customer service on requests for balances, status of eligibilities, etc from companies we wont mention. everyone places so much emphasis on new business but the real play in this space is repeat business. If a company doesn't disclose this in a schedule A of what you get paid or your account manager seems to steer away from that discussion (most likely they aren't paid renewals as employees so they don't care), you need to raise a red flag. Renewals are what has kept the companies in business. Anywhere from same pay on renewals to a % lower than new is the norm. Some cut it in half which could lead to flipping of accounts. IMO, renewals should pay similar to new as you know the history of the customer, they had good repayment history, and, it's an easy sell. The hardest part of this business is the acquisition of a new customer and that is why you see so many ads saying they will pay you a lot upfront, bonus' , etc. But, don't let that steer you away from the goal, which, should be renewals. There are reps who make a living off flipping renewals for the very reason of companies paying less. It's an area I think needs improvement in the industry

[nrh1lp]

Personally I love the way ECG treats renewals. I do absolutely nothing and they pay the same on renewals as new deals. Love it.

[JSL23]

I've been saying that for years now....They all say, "well we don't start making money until round 2." while I'm thinking good for you, but if my option is 50%-100% of the NET funded or 8-12 points of the total funded amount.....well, let's hope we have a really good relationship and/or the Merchant loves them and refuses to go anywhere else.

It is definitely something to negotiate when you sign or, at least once you fund a few deals with them..If you have to accept getting paid on net funded only at least get 10% of the net OR 75%-80% of the total if you have to take a hit....I don't mind getting a tiny bit less on a renewal as long as it's within reason. If it is something ridiculous like 50% of net funded I am at least giving another lender a crack at it.

**Never sign anything until you have seen a commission schedule that includes renewal compensation.***

[WestCoastFunding]

Personally I love the way ECG treats renewals. I do absolutely nothing and they pay the same on renewals as new deals. Love it.

This. ECG is a pleasure to do business with.

[Lmonus]

CFG pays ISO's commission regardless of how much effort they put into the deal. Half the time an ISO does nothing and gets a funding email at the end of the day for the same amount as the last. Commission loss on a renewal is Bs (Unless its down sold) and would give every broker a reason to move the deal elsewhere. Retention is a big part of this industry and brokers trust funders to pay them, period.

If you are looking for a safe house to send your submissions to, feel free to give me a call, Email or PM.

Thank you,

Lior Monus
CFG Merchant Solutions
Direct: 516-319-5826
Lmonus@cfgms.com

[Karen37a]

I usually get the same or 2 points off. ( it has been negotiated up front) ...Newbies should get 5 points less or its based on volume...production numbers,renewal ratios, defaults, closing ratios....contracts funded after called for...approval ratios etc. etc.

I had one deal D minus paper and no one wanted it except one company, and person. I got 60k or 70 offer 10 on the first 1.5 psf then renewed at it was 2 points less ... I complained, harshly for a moment then I called back and said sorry ...don't know what I am thinking, mortgage brokers get /got 1-3 points stockbrokers 2.5 and didn't close immediately and have roll over renewals.. I am becoming like them...trying to squeeze 2 points out like a piker instead of thinking of the long term.

I renewed lowered my points gave 2 points away...happy merchant. add**( i still wound up with 7 0r 8 points before anyone thinks I am in the tuck and roll drop your drawers catagory)

renewed again....happy merchant


took him away..pay off letter to 12 months lower rate back to 10 no psf.

he is coming up for a renewal


Brokers on my team cant switch companies...take the file to a new funder to get 2 more points unless i say its ok. And if they try it, like greedy lunatics they are Fired then we can fight over the balance of the book...

Many a war in Tampa Bay, over many books of business, companies, people...then they come on the df as a shill name to say derogatory things or tell someone else to say it.

You keep taking your Renewals away( without them profiting) and see who is left to fund you ...no one. If they stole from you I can see you doing it but not if they did the right thing by you.

But keep doing it so there are only a few brokers left to mop up the mess; we can then Buy a mansion on the water and go out on a high note.

[Karen37a]

Commissions are based on volumes/defaults/renewals/applications approved %/ applications closed %....whether they tell you those things or not.

No one wants 100 applications of pedis and fraudsters** balances too high ....waste of time and money, paper , ink; resources to process it and underwriters/processors will eventually hate you.

Some isos have underwriting depts ...some isos just send the applications in raw.Those things also adjust the commission scale. Everyone talks a big game on the front so you cant tell who is who. Only time tells the tale.

The funders /white labels who just take applications( that have no chance of funding) know that you are just giving them a list of some people to call in 15-30-90 days.

Its called a "tank" file in industry jargon...add that to the cute word list, next to vertical, algorithms, box.

Healthy shakeouts are good. Gets down to the lean and mean funders and isos and brokers

[Karen37a]

My opinion on the "tank file" has always been and will continue to be.

Why tank or hold off stall, steal the application from the few that can actually make it in the business.

Since there is a 95% failure ratio...you are getting the books of business anyway...and also the leads and files.

Its best to have a strong Iso /broker on the files because they think its their book of business and they some fight off debt relief and stacking to infinity to keep the merchant alive for the next renewal and commission.

( terminating isos is a bad move...the other isos go to swoop in on the files left unattended or serviced by a strong agressive broker or inside rep)

[Michael I]

none of you answered the poster question . After how long that a deal is paid off do you no longer pay the original iso ?

[Karen37a]

none of you answered the poster question . After how long that a deal is paid off do you no longer pay the original iso ?

"you" is many people who have many different rules...

What I have found to be true and fair is 30 days. Some say 14 days then it hangs in space where it is considered to be "in house" and then the inside brokers are trying to close it and the new outside iso/broker ( who recieved the file) are either closing it or taking it away to another funder.

This is all a moot point because some iso agreements have quotas and they also say you can be terminated for any reason whatsoever.

hense the creation of the super isos

[fundingsmbs]

have seen on a few agreements, 6 months or 180 days, unless that has changed post balance paid off. however, you should be in constant contact with your merchants MONTHLY! I would not hold my breathe that a renewal will be paid 5 months after it paid off. if 6 months have past and they fund that merchant they no longer consider it, in most cases, YOUR merchant.

correct on the quota insertions** read the fine print. if you do not submit "x" number of deals annually, or, convert "x" number of deals monthly/annually, your whole book could be wiped out. This is mainly done to vet out the one and done brokers who fund 1-2 deals and just want them to renew forever. if you cant keep up with new submissions, join a larger ISO who can so your book can stay intact.

[Karen37a]

have seen on a few agreements, 6 months or 180 days, unless that has changed post balance paid off. however, you should be in constant contact with your merchants MONTHLY! I would not hold my breathe that a renewal will be paid 5 months after it paid off. if 6 months have past and they fund that merchant they no longer consider it, in most cases, YOUR merchant.

correct on the quota insertions** read the fine print. if you do not submit "x" number of deals annually, or, convert "x" number of deals monthly/annually, your whole book could be wiped out. This is mainly done to vet out the one and done brokers who fund 1-2 deals and just want them to renew forever. if you cant keep up with new submissions, join a larger ISO who can so your book can stay intact.

And here is the rub. You better be one hell of a salesperson or team leader to get isos to join you( if you are not a Direct Funder). You are not paying them a salary or hourly wage and most will not follow you.

You must be 1099 trained to build a 1099 organization and most cant do it so they ***** and complain to the ones who can.

leadership is everything

[Michael I]

have seen on a few agreements, 6 months or 180 days, unless that has changed post balance paid off. however, you should be in constant contact with your merchants MONTHLY! I would not hold my breathe that a renewal will be paid 5 months after it paid off. if 6 months have past and they fund that merchant they no longer consider it, in most cases, YOUR merchant.

correct on the quota insertions** read the fine print. if you do not submit "x" number of deals annually, or, convert "x" number of deals monthly/annually, your whole book could be wiped out. This is mainly done to vet out the one and done brokers who fund 1-2 deals and just want them to renew forever. if you cant keep up with new submissions, join a larger ISO who can so your book can stay intact.

exactly

[Karen37a]

exactly

lol