[Karen37a]

Wasn't directed to you personally but you put a whole section of people in a bubble... I had to step back for a second and wonder is it all that bad? Am I disturbed by it... yes a bit. Not for me though for those I work with. All around the perception/outlook. Everyone paints their own picture based on what they do and experiences. I see them as opportunities and gaps in the market that can be filled. To me this is gold.

Also... I've been back I just chose not to be all over here because of time consuming debacles but sometimes I just get that DF itch and I gotta scratch it

It was that bad...there is / was a shake out...and i think one more is coming ( not as bad )...like another hurricane, just a small one

The Few that are left will make money coming back up again...then new people will pop up and say

"you do not know what you are doing, there are new fangled ways to do business"

it cycles

[Karen37a]

Karen, chill.

west. Imagine you knew( or guessed ) what was disclosed in some lawsuits because you figured it out in 2 seconds flat...then leaving because you didn't want to participate in it...to then have idiots for 2 years tell you how great certain companies are and how C/D paper sucks.

THEN they get a bright idea .."she must think this way because she is a criminal" ...then blasting a dui for over a year.
I had to listen to the bs. 2 years.( while staying silent)

Then the fools yelling at you, get their book of business stolen from them, others were bankrupted.

One that got 7800 files taken told me I needed to go to "underwriting school" Some poor rep on here got thrust in between he and I...they eventually threw him under a bus ( which I warned him about)

it has been interesting

Ill be on vacation soon...so I will be chilling

Ill let you know when I pull back up my Federal Charter to do loans...still doing mcas

[WestCoastFunding]

Why'd you do that Karen?

[Karen37a]

Why'd you do that Karen?

Why did I do what? Let pikers threaten me about 3 glasses of wine and not do anything back?



wake up

[WhoisKingsley]

It was that bad...there is / was a shake out...and i think one more is coming ( not as bad )...like another hurricane, just a small one

The Few that are left will make money coming back up again...then new people will pop up and say

"you do not know what you are doing, there are new fangled ways to do business"

it cycles

Agree.
Was - Is- and Will.

The "WAS" is obvious but if you think about it... it shook down a total opposite that we didn't see coming. The good guys- aka those who shut doors or shook up their execs. Change hit everyone hard and what was thought to be the a shake out originally (regulating the broker) didn't happen. Stacking won and new baby boomer funders are now reigning in a behind the scenes market.

It was said the Broker is bigger than all of us. The largest of the market that gets the deals in the door. No shame in the game... but now we have -IS. You have the need, building up, breeding, and celebration of the Broker on one hand with conferences and advertisements/posts accepting "ISOs"... but like you said... there is no amazing lead traffic of those good deals and those A/B paper outlets are "dormant" or "selective" in which they have every right to be. There is a huge separation in the space. Just like you have A-D Funders you have A-D Brokers.

WILL happen- Separation. We all know we can't teach old dogs new tricks. You can't tell an ISO Owner how to run his/her Business. You can't give everyone the same "rules" across the board if there are tiers to this...

How the hell did we get this far off topic?

[WhoisKingsley]

west. Imagine you knew( or guessed ) what was disclosed in some lawsuits because you figured it out in 2 seconds flat...then leaving because you didn't want to participate in it...to then have idiots for 2 years tell you how great certain companies are and how C/D paper sucks.

THEN they get a bright idea .."she must think this way because she is a criminal" ...then blasting a dui for over a year.
I had to listen to the bs. 2 years.( while staying silent)

Then the fools yelling at you, get their book of business stolen from them, others were bankrupted.

One that got 7800 files taken told me I needed to go to "underwriting school" Some poor rep on here got thrust in between he and I...they eventually threw him under a bus ( which I warned him about)

it has been interesting

Ill be on vacation soon...so I will be chilling

Ill let you know when I pull back up my Federal Charter to do loans...still doing mcas

west. Imagine you knew( or guessed ) what was disclosed in some lawsuits because you figured it out in 2 seconds flat...then leaving because you didn't want to participate in it...to then have idiots for 2 years tell you how great certain companies are and how C/D paper sucks.

THEN they get a bright idea .."she must think this way because she is a criminal" ...then blasting a dui for over a year.
I had to listen to the bs. 2 years.( while staying silent)

Then the fools yelling at you, get their book of business stolen from them, others were bankrupted.

One that got 7800 files taken told me I needed to go to "underwriting school" Some poor rep on here got thrust in between he and I...they eventually threw him under a bus ( which I warned him about)

it has been interesting

Ill be on vacation soon...so I will be chilling

Ill let you know when I pull back up my Federal Charter to do loans...still doing mcas

Hey... no one is judging you or going deep into anything... Your a smart woman and what's done is done. Lesson learned. You pushed on. You letting everyone know (who didn't know any of this) is letting those people who pissed you off know how much it bothered you. 7800 Leads is sh*t. I am sure they didn't get much with any pitch they can throw... look how far you got. now delete all that loca!!! You're better than that

[Fundyman]

FundyMan it seems you may be on the breakout cheerleaders squad but I am a realist.

Fundyman it seems your outsourcing lender list needs to be updated. I can help you to find better competitive rates. As it may seem that your low buy rates options are not that many!! Give me a shout Snaps!!
!

Craaaa, I'm not the type to join no cheerleading squad, no matter how much I would enjoy looking up a few skirts. It's just not something I have that much time for. But you did best to say that you're speaking based on your own personal experience. My experience was simple: I know when to send & when not to send a file to Breakout, so I'm a lot less disappointed with the results.

In general, it only takes a few deals sent to a funding company to see where their minds are at. Breakout made it clear: They fund, but not in ways that you expect; nor do they fund the merchants you expect. That's all. Many times, I feel I should get more commissions on a deal. Guess what: I don't send it to Breakout! Nor do I send it to Quarterspot.

All I know is I've gotten killer offers from OnDeck, and Breakout beat those offers or matched them. Had I never funded w/ them, I'm sure I would have had a different perspective of the company altogether. It all reverts to your main statement on experience.

As far as Snaps, I have no clue what that is. You should PM me some info.

[CraaaCraaa Radio]

Craaaa, I'm not the type to join no cheerleading squad, no matter how much I would enjoy looking up a few skirts. It's just not something I have that much time for. But you did best to say that you're speaking based on your own personal experience. My experience was simple: I know when to send & when not to send a file to Breakout, so I'm a lot less disappointed with the results.

In general, it only takes a few deals sent to a funding company to see where their minds are at. Breakout made it clear: They fund, but not in ways that you expect; nor do they fund the merchants you expect. That's all. Many times, I feel I should get more commissions on a deal. Guess what: I don't send it to Breakout! Nor do I send it to Quarterspot.

All I know is I've gotten killer offers from OnDeck, and Breakout beat those offers or matched them. Had I never funded w/ them, I'm sure I would have had a different perspective of the company altogether. It all reverts to your main statement on experience.

As far as Snaps, I have no clue what that is. You should PM me some info.

YOU DO NOT SEND TO QUARTERSPOT A TRUE P2P LENDER




QUARTERSPOT GIVES AVERAGE 200% of Revenue

IF Ondeck and Breakout is all you have as an arsenal we need to help you Snapper

FYI: Ondeck what a joke. Snap has beaten Ondeck offers with ease

[WhoisKingsley]

YOU DO NOT SEND TO QUARTERSPOT A TRUE P2P LENDER




QUARTERSPOT GIVES AVERAGE 200% of Revenue

IF Ondeck and Breakout is all you have as an arsenal we need to help you Snapper

Everyone wants double digits but I can almost guarantee that my Quarterspot deals renew. I don't have to worry about their underwriting or my deals getting lost at the time of submission or beyond. The Business owner likes the way it works and the process... they come back. So for one deal that can be funded once at a high rate for those 4-5 extra point I make up residually within a year x3. Hmmm... accounted "commission" stability for X amount of months to come by locking a merchant in and organizing my follow ups?

Good advice here people. #staywoke

What other Companies you see staying around long term?

[Karen37a]

Hey... no one is judging you or going deep into anything... Your a smart woman and what's done is done. Lesson learned. You pushed on. You letting everyone know (who didn't know any of this) is letting those people who pissed you off know how much it bothered you. 7800 Leads is sh*t. I am sure they didn't get much with any pitch they can throw... look how far you got. now delete all that loca!!! You're better than that

Amanda some have always known.

( some people judging me is like me going to the homeless shelter and wondering if they like my Louis Vuitton handbag and BMW I drove up in)

It drives me nuts when people are cheering for them.
.
A funder just wasted my time for 40 days, saving a merchant from them. Hard to let time like that wasted go.

People think they can cross people and they think oh well they will get over it...some lock down like a pit bull and shred.( this usually is in the form of closing more deals to me)

( the pit bull in me stops the defaults as well...good and bad)

But again...vacation and stepping away 2 weeks will bring back my cheery disposition

Recharge the batteries

Have a great weekend *

[CraaaCraaa Radio]

Everyone wants double digits but I can almost guarantee that my Quarterspot deals renew. I don't have to worry about their underwriting or my deals getting lost at the time of submission or beyond. The Business owner likes the way it works and the process... they come back. So for one deal that can be funded once at a high rate for those 4-5 extra point I make up residually within a year x3. Hmmm... accounted "commission" stability for X amount of months to come by locking a merchant in and organizing my follow ups?

Good advice here people. #staywoke

What other Companies you see staying around long term?

Fundyman if we have the same merchant you have no chance on funding that merchant.
Because the array of programs that we can offer merchants will leave you funding under 500k a month on your own

[HDF]

@ Amanda...Kalamata is going through some system changes and enhancements to get with the times. If they get it right they could have some shelf life.

[Cfairbank]

Question for @CCR (or any other broker): let's say, hypothetically, that you could get an instantaneous, fully-automated approval with a range of offers or a decline (with decline reason) from us by simply providing the initial docs (signed application and bank statements) in PDF format (the option to go through portal would not go away). Your approval will be quite firm, as the scoring model will already have analyzed the full credit profile via a soft pull (not just the FICO 9 score, but also all positive features or negative entries on the credit report that are major drivers of a lot of our declines -- but to be clear, part of the verification would be that the app received gives us full permission to do a soft pull or access other customer-level information), links to core 3rd parties via APIs for customer-relevant verification (or analysis) in real-time, and (most importantly in my view) conducts a fully automated bank statement analysis from just the submitted PDFs. Again, all done by just sending us your standard PDF documents and you won't have to wait for an offer or decline. This would incorporate a real-time feedback loop via ML to consistently and automatically improve our approval/scoring model (i.e. tighten or loosen areas of our credit model or find new gaps). This would be fully proprietary, in-house technology.

Initially, your approval ratio likely wouldn't change -- it's still about what we want to fund and uses the latest model of the Breakout Score; but there is no wasted time to get an answer unless insufficient information is submitted. So the question is this: if all you have to do is send in PDFs to get an offer or decline in real-time (folks here can call us difficult to get approvals from, but everyone knows your app is safe with us), how does it change how folks would use us?

[HDF]

^ I think that if everyone had a standard application and the business owner fills it out correctly/legibly the first time every time- it would be great! That's not possible of course.

I'm also intrigued by how the heck your systems will be able to analyze bank statements from all the different banks - especially the smaller ones. This is some undertaking, I think a lot of brokers would love to see the efficiency.

[Cfairbank]

Hdf: not at all necessary. As long as the machine has already analyzed an app from a broker or bank statements from the a borrowers bank, it doesn’t matter whether it’s the same app or not as long as it has the experience with that app and continues to improve through an automated feedback look — and through advanced ML, we are able to get to a much higher higher degree of accuracy than humans can and it continues to improve its accuracy by teaching itself, thereby improving every day with each incremental app. So let’s say we start with 50k apps and back statements from thousands (no idea the number there) banks; that’s already enough info to address most banks in the country (and with extreme accuracy for all the major or semi major banks given amt of data) accurately and Apps even more accurately (assuming data on app is right). As long as you feed your machines enough information and allow them to “solve a problem” instead of, as folks do it today, “solve for a specific solution” (sounds like a minor nuance, but it’s a major difference in machine learning), where the “best” in the mkt today are from a technology standpoint will still be outdated.

Call me Monday, bud.

[MCNetwork]

I think we're years away from getting instantaneous approvals from PDF files. Half of the time the PDFs are barely legible because they are just blurry scans of statements. In addition, many applications are handwritten and look like chicken scratch. I haven't seen any type of OCR software that can make heads or tails out of these documents unless the PDFs are perfectly formatted and 100% legible which isn't the norm.

[Karen37a]

I think we're years away from getting instantaneous approvals from PDF files. Half of the time the PDFs are barely legible because they are based off of photocopied statements or handwritten chicken scratch on the application itself. I haven't seen any type of OCR software that can make heads or tails out of these statements unless the PDFs are perfectly formatted and 100% legible which isn't common. This is all wishful thinking right now.

I agree. And even if it could be done thru ocr software.( which it cant for the reasons above ) Standard application forms create more opportunities for backdooring Also those initial algorithms are just a pre pre pre determining factor to see if a file moves on to stage 2...more underwriting. Or stage 3..more underwriting.


The speed of approvals of deals (that someone wants) is not the main concern in this industry..you send in docs, an application and within a few hours or 24 hours you get approved; funded within another 24 hours. Nor documents.

Or you get denied.

The Key is to getting a file that the Funder likes( or wants to approve)...not how quick they scan their documents once you give it to them

Getting the clients to SEND the documents thru numerous phone calls ...convincing the client to do business with you is the key ( and fitting a certain underwriting guideline with the right or best funder) You cant force the merchant to speed up his end ( sending docs and stips) no matter how hard we try.


You can never take the human element out of sales ...or underwriting.

Even the best underwriting caused massive defaults for A paper

[Eddie.deangelis]

Karen I could not agree more when it comes to Sales ! You can have the most money, the best business plan on the planet, organization, structure, good network, big credit lines and look like a billion dollars on paper but without Sales you can put it all in the trash! You have to appreciate the cream of the crop, the true closers, the true relationship builder that starts, builds and maintains the customer relationships for life as simple as brushing their teeth! Never underestimate the true salesman! It all starts with Sales, no Sales no business very simple!

[Karen37a]

Karen I could not agree more when it comes to Sales ! You can have the most money, the best business plan on the planet, organization, structure, good network, big credit lines and look like a billion dollars on paper but without Sales you can put it all in the trash! You have to appreciate the cream of the crop, the true closers, the true relationship builder that starts, builds and maintains the customer relationships for life as simple as brushing their teeth! Never underestimate the true salesman! It all starts with Sales, no Sales no business very simple!

I agree.

And isos recruit brokers ( which is a sale) you are selling yourself

And Funders recruit Isos....and the person who is in charge is selling themselves ( your sales rep are the one helping , they are key ) and selling the leadership of the company

The best sales managers and owners were once salespeople themselves. ( or still are, leading the charge from the front..in small to mid size organizations)

Salespeople respect production and results...thats it.
( which is why they come across as cocky and arrogant )

they get tired of people below them telling them what to do or how to do it better and adopt the mentality of "numbers talk and bull shi* walks " which makes the non producers hate them with every fiber of their being.

[WestCoastFunding]

Karen I could not agree more when it comes to Sales ! You can have the most money, the best business plan on the planet, organization, structure, good network, big credit lines and look like a billion dollars on paper but without Sales you can put it all in the trash! You have to appreciate the cream of the crop, the true closers, the true relationship builder that starts, builds and maintains the customer relationships for life as simple as brushing their teeth! Never underestimate the true salesman! It all starts with Sales, no Sales no business very simple!

Please don't agree with her. It will only encourage her more.

[CraaaCraaa Radio]

Karen I could not agree more when it comes to Sales ! You can have the most money, the best business plan on the planet, organization, structure, good network, big credit lines and look like a billion dollars on paper but without Sales you can put it all in the trash! You have to appreciate the cream of the crop, the true closers, the true relationship builder that starts, builds and maintains the customer relationships for life as simple as brushing their teeth! Never underestimate the true salesman! It all starts with Sales, no Sales no business very simple!

Some Funders or ISO"s think you can replace good sales people just like that. But that is far from the truth and at times it's because the owners put people in positions that make and take things personal and always have an agenda. If your not hands on to know what is going on in your organization than you will take several losses!!! Starting with your grade A employees

[CraaaCraaa Radio]

^ I think that if everyone had a standard application and the business owner fills it out correctly/legibly the first time every time- it would be great! That's not possible of course.

I'm also intrigued by how the heck your systems will be able to analyze bank statements from all the different banks - especially the smaller ones. This is some undertaking, I think a lot of brokers would love to see the efficiency.

Agreed

[Cfairbank]

Meant to have this posed as a hypothetical question, but given the doubts instead of offering uses, I'll add a bit of background before we make this available to select partners (yes, I mean what you read). It's an eye-opening experience when you really start exploring how advanced we (humankind) are already in "artificial intelligence" (or robotics or machine learning or whatever you want to call it); we are already at the point where machines NEED to be controlled by humans to ensure they don't learn too much. Unlike humans that have real "limitations", a computer's limitations are man-made and machines every day conduct many tasks well beyond a humans limitations -- and via ML and a constant feedback loop, they are constantly improving their accuracy and, if aren't restricted to solving for only a single solution, should also develop seemingly extraneous, but potentially significant, self-taught applications. And the simplest applications are ones like I originally posed, where machines are fed with enough enough data points, they can learn to process, AT A MINIMUM, anything if it is legible to human eye -- and forget about basic OCR -- this is about a machine extracting correlations that are cross referenced across millions of data points that are mostly naked to the human eye... and with a sufficient amount of data, it doesn't take long before the machines will be more accurate than a human eye and not subject to human errors, biases, or "judgement calls". (not talking, nor do I intend to, enter any sort of discussion about the "value" of a salesperson.

For those still in doubt, there are so many examples of machines that weren't "fully" or "properly" restricted by human imposed limitations, that eventually would surpass the best of the best of mankind. Take the chess master example (which was restricted and once enough games were played, it would take all that data to calculate the "best" move for any move made by the chess master) or Facebook who had to shut down "Alice & Bob" because, without human-enforced limits, they began to develop their own language that even Facebook couldn't understand. There are tons of examples like this.

In my original query to folks, no one answered how helpful it would be -- just stated that it isn't possible. Whether or not folks believe it, humor me and let's assume it does exist: how useful would it be? Would that lead to more shotgunning or more "first looks"?

But, a simple application like I posed above is just the tip of the iceberg. As an industry, we are behind. I know where we (Breakout) are going, but so many of the growing issues around fraud, identity, trades or double funding, and even potentially putting stacking on much shakier legal ground (and of course fixing Karen's complaint about backdooring) can be addressed through something similar to what the SBFA does today for it's members, but "built" on the right technology and with open participation to create a unmalleable, decentralized, digital ledger...... aka the "SMBL" BC).

[Cfairbank]

I think we're years away from getting instantaneous approvals from PDF files. Half of the time the PDFs are barely legible because they are just blurry scans of statements. In addition, many applications are handwritten and look like chicken scratch. I haven't seen any type of OCR software that can make heads or tails out of these documents unless the PDFs are perfectly formatted and 100% legible which isn't the norm.

This couldn't be further from the truth. If it's legible to you, the machine will learn it. Today's OCRs aren't built properly on ML (if I'm not mistaken, they are static solutions because if you allow them to "learn", they wouldn't solve the broader problem an OCR is attempting to solve (take any pdf and put it into word or excel) , while we have a specific type of document and all we care about is the authenticity, the accuracy, and the ability to extract and analyze data specific to bank statements and applications (to start) -- and it's the constant learning that allows the computer, that initially can't identify anything "non-standard", to learn with each new app, quickly catch up to human ability, and then move ahead because of their ability to cross reference every pixel on every pdf -- that's what makes it "easy".... you wouldn't believe how quickly this was built. And, at proper capacity, if the computer can't recognize it, the human couldn't either so, you have to re-request docs anyways.

[HDF]

And, at proper capacity, if the computer can't recognize it, the human couldn't either so, you have to re-request docs anyways.

Ok, so that right there is the game changer. I'm sure however that top down needs to meet bottom up in terms of client acquisition at some point. But where? At what level does the productivity gained by the lender/funder benefit the broker/ISO? Or better stated perhaps, broker/ISO does the same amount of work and recon, and actually may spend more time in the process than less all said and done. Yet Funder/Lender benefits from economies of automation.

Still, I am a buyer of the opportunity and real FinTech for once. Not the paper chase.