[NoBiggie]

Examples are helpful, yes, but it doesn't help to say "highly stupid with no regards to common sense or logical thinking" in any debate about anything. They should come to that conclusion themselves.

but they're stupid...they can't come to any conclusions

[abfunders]

You are arguing physiology and not psychology...that's the difference....why does it scare you so much? Why is it your business what anyone else thinks of their body or religion..it's life and yes, education can and should explain that people do think that way....thats the purpose of education, not banning books our of fear. Burning and banning books, controlling what people do with their bodies, forcing your religious and political beliefs on others....that's fascism...just love and let it all be...

It scares me because it tells me that there's no concrete reality. Real people suffer real consequences when there's no reality. Children are exposed to concepts that they shouldn't be aware of. Societies crumble because there are no children born and they're exposed to concepts like they're being told about. They get confused, and third parties tell us that our children are being abused because their innocence is being guarded. Psychological damage is enforced upon them.

Tolerance? Sure. But it needs to end there. When someone pushes the concept that "what's abnormal is really normal", then I have no say and there's no point in fulfilling my life. Because if I did someone "good" it's completely irrelevant, and all of life is nihilistic. That's not education. It also creates dumb people who can't/won't think or can/want to meet goals. For example, if there's no "objectivity," then all doctors are the same, therefore there's nobody to learn from, therefore nobody to race to go to if someone I care about is sick, and nobody else is motivated to become better to be "the best." It's a race to be mediocre, and HUMANS AREN'T MADE FOR THAT. Humans THRIVE on challenge and becoming better and giving and love and relationships that are give/take. If giving doesn't matter, then appreciation for what someone can do for someone is meaningless, and that leads to the breakdown of society.

The psychological basis for all of this gender stuff is based on a idiomatic mistake and changing history that "gender" and "sex" are separate, when in fact they are not. They're synonyms that became separated when the term "sex" started meaning the physical act. What people really mean by "gender" is "temperament" and that is fluid and has tendencies despite the actual physical characteristics that are not fluid.

The basis for breaking down all hierarchies is ... what? Because some people weren't treated fair? Well, that's the point of free speech. To keep the hierarchies in check. Comes the Woke and even destroys that, and you can't have meaningful conversations anymore because they're cancelling you and not letting your point of view have value.

Controlling what people do with their bodies..... Like running a red light? That's also control. Not all control is bad. TOO MUCH control is bad. Again, that's what free speech is supposed to prevent, a dialogue to prevent it from going too far. Yes, that's subjective, but life is a balancing act. Governments go right, they go left, they go back again, swinging back and forth.

It's not fascist to tell people they can't run a red light, it's also not fascist to say that abortion is murder. That could be up for debate, but again, that's the point of free speech.

Forcing religion on people? Yeah, that's the pot calling the kettle black. Public schools are forcing children to watch sexualized drag queens?! They're not not-for-profit, it's a racket (you MUST pay or we put you in jail) run by a certain set of actors with certain values who are terrorizing anyone who "dares" challenge the system and call someone by the wrong pronouns, or (when I was a kid) "dares" to sit out of the Xmas celebrations.

Again, it needs to stop at tolerance. But to force your views on me, what we are calling cancel culture, and calling abnormal "normal" and changing society to cause psychological harm to children because "you" are "uncomfortable" being "normal"... it has got to stop.

[Olderguy]

I guess I don't see anything as abnormal. Education isn't psychological harm....Trans people go though very thorough psychologial testing and review with their situation to make informed decisions about their thoughts and bodies. It exists and there shouldn't be any shelter from any of it. Drag queens tell stories to kids....like so what? Seriously? Cops are killing black and brown people...shouldn't we put our energies into that? Kids tell dirty stories to each other at recess...God forbid we might be telling about this other behavior that exists in the world...like critical race theory or trans people. Pulling books from libraries is absolute fascism pure and simple. Putting politicians in charge of schools.....same thing. Banning abortions - political and religious practices being forced on other people. I don't see that as demoracy and what this country stood for in the past but doesn't seem to be the case now.

[TheUnderwriter]

I guess I don't see anything as abnormal. Education isn't psychological harm....Trans people go though very thorough psychologial testing and review with their situation to make informed decisions about their thoughts and bodies. It exists and there shouldn't be any shelter from any of it. Drag queens tell stories to kids....like so what? Seriously? Cops are killing black and brown people...shouldn't we put our energies into that? Kids tell dirty stories to each other at recess...God forbid we might be telling about this other behavior that exists in the world...like critical race theory or trans people. Pulling books from libraries is absolute fascism pure and simple. Putting politicians in charge of schools.....same thing. Banning abortions - political and religious practices being forced on other people. I don't see that as demoracy and what this country stood for in the past but doesn't seem to be the case now.

Well I think I just made my point about "highly stupid with no regards to common sense or logical thinking" after reading this response to Abfunders. And NoBiggie gets it, Olderguy does not. Abfunder cannot be more clear and yet this guys argument is 'i guess i dont see abnormal'. You mean a 9 or 10 year old boy or girl thinks they the opposite gender due to their teacher grooming them is not abnormal? a d1 male swimmer at Penn who was ranked 400+ for males wakes up 1 day and says 'im a female' and joins the girls team and is basically top 3 in NCAA womens swimming. A teacher telling a 8 year old about blowjobs and oral sex. (The books that were banned btw). None of that is 'Abnormal' to you? 'Police killing black and brown people' - just shows you how much of a sheep you are and know nothing about anything other than what is spoon fed to you. Do you know how many white or black people died to cops in 2022? Whites - 389, Blacks - 225, Hispanic - 120. 2021 - Whites - 302, blacks - 177. Now if you want to do it by unarmed, its 3 or 4 to 1 whites vs blacks. So tell me where this 'police killing black and brown people' thing is since your reference seems to indicate cops just hunt down black people when i just showed you a statistic that argues against your point. But I am sure your argument is 'well whites make up a much larger part of the population', yes that is true but 50% of the crime is committed by 18-22% of the population yet whites dying more at the hands of cops? Kind of kills your argument there.

If you are 18 years old and you want to get a sex change, go for it. You want to marry another man or women, go for it, your an adult. Doesnt affect my life but when you force it on others to 'obey' this way or you are a bigot or we will 'peaceful protect' your neighbor or get your fired from your job, thats where the issue is. I could care less if a child at 15 had some thoughts i didnt agree with then at 18 they want to cut off their penis. You make that decision. But I love the fact that 10+ years ago we would see Chris Hansen busting older guys trying to sleep with 12-15 year old girls and boys and thats a big no no since they are not of age to give consent, but now a days its oh you want to get life changing surgery at age 12 and the government and liberal teachers/states are ok with it, that doesnt seem correct?

[Olderguy]

Bro - you haven't been around any trans people to understand their situation so you speak with a very unenlightened viewpoint. People learn things about themselves long before they become 18 years and suffer severe trauma....open your mind and investigate. Seriously - the government in Florida is controlling your life and your kids lives in a very detrimental way. Why are you not offended by book banning and government controlling schools? And heavens to betsy now they want to ban girls talking about their periods? ...Shouldn't we be regulating railroads and banks instead of uteruses and drag shows? Well I've decided I want a sex change. From none to lots.

[abfunders]

Bro - you haven't been around any trans people to understand their situation so you speak with a very unenlightened viewpoint. People learn things about themselves long before they become 18 years and suffer severe trauma....open your mind and investigate. Seriously - the government in Florida is controlling your life and your kids lives in a very detrimental way. Why are you not offended by book banning and government controlling schools? And heavens to betsy now they want to ban girls talking about their periods? ...Shouldn't we be regulating railroads and banks instead of uteruses and drag shows? Well I've decided I want a sex change. From none to lots.

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" arguments mean nothing. Focus on the issue at hand.

Hierarchies are actually what regulators are. "WE tell you that you can't do this with your money." Which hierarchies have more value? 100% free market where people could lose their pants, or limited oversight, or maximum oversight? That's a legit question, and needs discussion. But not cancellation and blame-throwing when it goes wrong and being a Monday night quarterback.

The brains of people under the age of 18 for sure (and I would argue even under the age of 20-21) are not fully developed yet. They cannot make informed decisions. Period. I in fact live in a community where there are NO trans people. Why? Because we call sex change mutilation and mutilation is worse than living alone. Removing and replacing body parts are not called "normal." The psychological damage done to someone by grooming them and convincing them that they are trans is MUCH worse than the psychological damage done to people who "are" trans (up for debate if such a thing exists) and can't get the surgery. As a society, we have to play a balancing act of values, that's actually probably the definition of the character of a society.

Confusion at that age is perfectly normal, and that's WHY we have hierarchies, to help young people (whose brains are not developed) trust that parents can help them guide their decision-making process. Removing these hierarchies is just anarchism and leads to fascism itself, because SOMEONE will take power. Nature abhors a vacuum.

Did you know that the entire sex ed in schools is based on eugenics?! It's amazing how you can repurpose history and say "well this is normal, so we have to go father left." By definition, liberals need to go farther left, otherwise they feel like they didn't accomplish in the world. They get older, get married, and realize they can do A LOT by earning a living and raising a family. If you stay single, what impact do you have in the world? It becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

ADULTS talking about sex to children (drag queens, which is sexualizing children) and CHILDREN talking about sex to children are different. Again, it's the hierarchies thing. When peers talk about something, it can remain taboo. When adults tell them, it becomes normal, and the taboo comes off. Which means the physiological and mental health of a person is completely up for grabs, that's just not how humans are hard wired.

"Book banning" again - you can't make it black and white. It's a question of values, and that's why we have hierarchies and free speech and democracy. If everything is one big mush, nobody can grow and feel accomplished. It's just communism where nobody's motivated to do anything productive.

These are facts. Woke work with feelings of "now." Which is the correct value? Discuss. But don't cancel me.

[Olderguy]

You guys have no experience around trans people to see their position. I have and your argument holds no weight against their reality.

[abfunders]

Don't cancel Steve from business because he's a liberal. He's clearly not a very good logician or debater, so that may preclude someone from doing business with him, but don't say "I can't believe" - Yes you can. You can do business with him, you can make money together, critical thinking isn't always needed to make money. Blundering idiots make money in this industry. And even in SBA loans, you just have to have a particular set of skills. Debating and logic isn't always one of them. Often it's just sales and organization.

Name-calling and cancelling is not good for anyone. Open dialogue keeps wheels of society turning and keeps the hierarchy in check. In extreme cases, it becomes an actual revolution. Where that crosses the line from one to the other, that's what dialogue is for.

[abfunders]

You guys have no experience around trans people to see their position. I have and your argument holds no weight against their reality.

We don't need experience around trans people to see their position. Some people read and listen and think. What you just said encapsulates it all: "their reality." THERE IS ONLY ONE REALITY! Have you even dared to watch "What is a Woman?" If they want to mutilate themselves, they don't care about my opinion and didn't ask me, and I'm not going to stop them. However, once they tell me that THEY are entitled to sexualize children, and there's NO discussion otherwise, that's automatically trampling on my free speech, and REAL BIOLOGY states that XY/XX is normal, and androgenous/XXY/XYY, etc is 0.02% to 0.05%. In the only reality that exists, that means non-XX/XY is abnormal. Those are the facts. The rest is jealously ("I want to be normal") lust ("I am truly only attracted to children under 12"), and honor ("I want to be in charge, give me over representation despite being a small subset of the population"). Unfortunately, psychologists are forced to "confirm" choices. Therapy is supposed to change harmful choices. There's no such thing by definition is as "gender confirmation therapy."

[Olderguy]

Freedom of choice isn't just one reality. Trans people don't see it as sexual mutilation and it's their choice. One reality wouldn't have Repulbicans and Democrats. Conservatives and liberals.

[BR-Nightmare]

SMH, can we go back to the topic of four day work weeks in our industry?

If you'd like you can take your discussion to the "Everything Else"

[abfunders]

Freedom of choice isn't just one reality. Trans people don't see it as sexual mutilation and it's their choice. One reality wouldn't have Repulbicans and Democrats. Conservatives and liberals.

Huh? Until about 5 years ago, you would have been laughed out of the room for a statement like that. There IS freedom or choice or there IS NOT freedom of choice? People certainly have the "choice" to stay as they are. Are you saying that they'd rather die? So again, that's choosing between values. Death or mental health problems.

Freedom of choice doesn't mean that I can "choose" realities. I also cannot "choose" to impose my reality on you. It means that I have the freedom to choose a set of values. Society has to come together to decide if those values are safe enough to let you do them, or not. Some of us (Torah Jews) have a guideline how to do that, which is why we also send to private religious schools. Democracies have methods as well. For example, if you took a true vote, I doubt that if you'll find that the majority of people want drag queens in schools. In fact, the majority probably want to leave the schools that they're FORCED into paying for (no school vouchers) and the teachers union ("not for profit" honor-seekers, not public servants) don't match with their value system. And the majority of people will probably honor that if you want it, do it privately, but not on my tax dollars.

Some of us have children who are still sweet and innocent and want them to grow up with true values and living a productive happy life, as opposed to being a 70 year-old who is proud of women fawning over his motorcycle.

[abfunders]

Sorry, I just can't keep away from a good debate, t's in my nature. I'm done.

4-day workweek. Maybe (without force) have 10 hours per day 4 days/week? And weekends for small catchup? Why doesn't that work?

[NoBiggie]

Drag queens tell stories to kids....like so what?

Genuine curiosity here, do you have kids? Do you not understand why something like Drag queens doing story time with children can be a perversion to a youth's mind?

[Seth Davis]

With how this industry is it will never work unless you're just having agents work from home on Friday, and even then it probably wouldn't work cause I don't care how much you trust your employees less work will inevitably get done

[NoBiggie]

You got issues Steve. I cant believe anyone would do business with you. The facts were just laid out and this is your argument. I showed you data on 'police killing black and brown people' , you ignore that clearly, truth hurt there / your narrative destroyed? I even give you a Chris Hansen reference yet your response is 'be open minded'. so a 40 year old is OK to rape a 12 year old in your mind since your 'open minded' and thus a sex change is completely ok? There is a reason the majority of Hispanics voted for Desantis and other republicans since they dont want the US to turn into Cuba, Venezuela, Brazil etc. They see the way the far left want to operate, they come from a place where the far far left rule, I guess their viewpoint or experience means nothing to you since you say be 'open minded'? But again, i love the fact all of your arguments were pretty much nullified and you dont even acknowledge it or try to counter it (which you cant especially with the stats i gave you on deaths by cops). But go for that sex change man. You are definitely old enough to make that decision as an adult. Just make sure to change your handle to "Stephanie Benejamin - Formally known as Steve (They/them)'

Ill let ABfunder take it from here, he continues to just point out more and more facts but like i mentioned before "highly stupid with no regards to common sense or logical thinking". You are proving this point. Even if you said "wow I didnt know that statistics on cops when it comes to black/white deaths. This make sense and I will do my own research and If i come to the same data set I will know I was clearly brainwashed into thinking a different narrative, thank you for pointing that out' But no shot you or any liberal will say something like that after being shown facts and not a made up narrative going on for the last few years.

Your passion here sparked my curiosity, when was the last time you changed your opinion on something that was clearly a more conservative/republican talking point (death by cops & fascism) to something more in the middle or even to the left?

I used to be very hard on pro-life, but after hearing both sides I realized that whole abortion argument from the left isn't even talking about pro life of babies. Their focus is only on the mother while the right's focus is only on the baby (without much consideration for the woman's dilemma in the whole matter). So it now makes total sense why both sides keep screaming louder at the other. They're not even having the same conversation

Which seems to be the same thing happening here with your (and abfunders) back and forth with Olderguy

[NoBiggie]

Some people read and listen and think.

...

[NoBiggie]

You guys have no experience around trans people to see their position. I have and your argument holds no weight against their reality.

How do you govern a country when 330M people have their own unique individual set of realities and truths?
How do you govern a country when it so happens that some realities, unfortunately, conflict (pretty substantially) with lots of other realities

[Michael I]

I used to be very hard on pro-life, but after hearing both sides I realized that whole abortion argument from the left isn't even talking about pro life of babies. Their focus is only on the mother while the right's focus is only on the baby (without much consideration for the woman's dilemma in the whole matter). So it now makes total sense why both sides keep screaming louder at the other. They're not even having the same conversation

Did you listen to chris rock new special ?,“I believe that women should have the right to kill babies,” he declared. “But let’s not get it twisted, it is killing a baby. ‘Cause whenever I pay for an abortion, I request a dead baby.”

[Michael I]

I guess I don't see anything as abnormal. Education isn't psychological harm....Trans people go though very thorough psychologial testing and review with their situation to make informed decisions about their thoughts and bodies. It exists and there shouldn't be any shelter from any of it. Drag queens tell stories to kids....like so what? Seriously? Cops are killing black and brown people...shouldn't we put our energies into that? Kids tell dirty stories to each other at recess...God forbid we might be telling about this other behavior that exists in the world...like critical race theory or trans people. Pulling books from libraries is absolute fascism pure and simple. Putting politicians in charge of schools.....same thing. Banning abortions - political and religious practices being forced on other people. I don't see that as demoracy and what this country stood for in the past but doesn't seem to be the case now.

just curious do you believe 2 year olds should learn about trans https://wlos.com/news/nation-world/n...n-cyndi-lauper

[NoBiggie]

Did you listen to chris rock new special ?,“I believe that women should have the right to kill babies,” he declared. “But let’s not get it twisted, it is killing a baby. ‘Cause whenever I pay for an abortion, I request a dead baby.”

Haven't watched it yet
Thanks for ruining the joke bud

[Michael I]

Haven't watched it yet
Thanks for ruining the joke bud

haha sorry but truth is you can read All his jokes and still laugh , he is all about delivery

[TheUnderwriter]

Your passion here sparked my curiosity, when was the last time you changed your opinion on something that was clearly a more conservative/republican talking point (death by cops & fascism) to something more in the middle or even to the left?

I used to be very hard on pro-life, but after hearing both sides I realized that whole abortion argument from the left isn't even talking about pro life of babies. Their focus is only on the mother while the right's focus is only on the baby (without much consideration for the woman's dilemma in the whole matter). So it now makes total sense why both sides keep screaming louder at the other. They're not even having the same conversation

Which seems to be the same thing happening here with your (and abfunders) back and forth with Olderguy

I just enjoy the fact he was presented with information and he ignored it and goes off on another direction on issues he brought up. Deaths to blacks- data showed, ignored, didnt even mention it. Maybe i changed his mind? then great.

Pro-life and Pro-choice argument. I am very in the middle on this in my opinion. I am not really against abortion in the sense you terminate it early. We had this whole 'my body, my choice' thing (and its funny since if you see those videos of women arguing and protesting, its most younger or middle aged women who lets say look like a bus hit them so not sure why they protesting since they clearly cannot get laid or will never have this issue when it comes to getting pregnant but thats another topic) but when it came to the vaccine its no longer 'my body my choice' its take it or you dont have a job or you cant go outside. Very odd how Liberals view 1 thing and not the other. But I am not totally against an abortion but what I think most people have a problem with and I cannot believe 100% of the population doesnt see the issue, how do you terminate a baby in the 3rd trimester? These women that get abortions then, the doctors literally rip the baby out and smash their head, thats not a fetus or a 6-7 week old developing fetus, its a full grown baby that is 3-6 weeks from being born. Other than making a life or death call to save the mother, i dont see how you can decide to term the baby then and not 20-25 weeks prior but terming at 3rd tri is OK by some people in all cases. that part just seems wrong by every measure. If someone wants to make the heart beat argument and that starts when sperm hits egg, then argue that or the people that say a heart beat it at 5-6 weeks. If you want to argue an abortion there, I wouldnt really disagree , still sucks in general and is sad but I understand and if the women wants to do it, i believe she can have that right to make that call.

[BR-Nightmare]

I cannot believe 100% of the population doesn't see the issue

The reason why is because of how this country provides such a freedom of press that can traumatize, hypnotize, and/or terrorize individuals.

We live in a day and age that everything in this world curves to a side. Granted democracy provides that ability to vote and choose but on any topic at hand, this freedom of press does more damage than anything else. It's sad to see how far we have come as a country where I wish I had the ability to shelter my kids from the amount of bull**** press that gets put out there. Mind you this press is what educates half of the arguments on here.

[Olderguy]

I would assume 3rd trimster abortion is a medical issue. Pro choice - my body my decision. Pro Life - you're killing a life. Why do we need to legislate either...just leave people well enough alone to make their own decisions.