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  1. #1

    Seeking Attorney Recommendations for Unpaid Commissions

    Long story short, a shady funder in NYC backdoored our deal and gave the merchant the typical bait and switch (take this MCA and we'll give you a 3% 10 year loan after).

    Commission was stolen, among other things that'll have legal repercussions. We've retained counsel already, but wondering if anyone had recommendations for cases like this.

  2. #2
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    Requires litigation with a lawyer familiar with the space. Sending you a DM. He won't be available due to the holiday so much, that's the only drawback, but that's typical for this space for now.
    Micah Markowitz | mmarkowitz@abfunders.com | 314-396-2828

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    A Shady Funder? Nooooooooooooooo .......in the Merchant Cash Business ? naw......are you sure - because Pope John
    Paul just blessed this industry - God Bless the well-tuned human beings in the Merchant Cash.....LOL

    You don't want to be backdoored become a Priest LOL (I hear they like children though) ok maybe not a Priest cause they back door too (if you get my drift) maybe a Librarian (the industry hasn't bastardized Librarians yet because there isn't any money in it- that would be pretty safe for you my young friend LOL
    - the MCA industry will back door your Mother - get over it.

    Caveat Emptor - find a new line of work

    Your funny

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    Quote Originally Posted by loan View Post
    Long story short, a shady funder in NYC backdoored our deal and gave the merchant the typical bait and switch (take this MCA and we'll give you a 3% 10 year loan after).

    Commission was stolen, among other things that'll have legal repercussions. We've retained counsel already, but wondering if anyone had recommendations for cases like this.
    before you waste any money, read your iso agreement fully.One funder told me only 1 in 10 iso even ask to get the counter signed. I know some agreements have clauses that you need to submit/fund a new deal every x amount of days so if you didnt at any point from when you both signed ,you are not even an iso of theirs. Next if the iso agreement is solid , you need to make sure your proof is solid and that is was not a shopper that they can easily say they got it from someone else.
    Best of luck and Please update us what happens as i have been in this industry since 07 and do not know of one case of an iso actually winning in court vs a funder

  5. #5
    Lol, you guys are funny. Definitely wish this industry had some barriers to entry. Just because a contract has a certain clause, doesn't make it enforceable if it is unfairly one-sided.

    And to the other cynical moron that can't use spellcheck, perhaps you don't do enough volume or large deal sizes to have to interact with lawyers, or have the knowledge to know when you can file for damages.

    Anyway, I appreciate the 1 person that DM'd a credible reccomendation.

  6. #6
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    IMO - Ask yourself a few questions:

    How much commission are you fighting over?
    What will it cost you in legal fees (you indicated you already retained counsel)
    How much time, aggravation, stress will you put yourself under?

    No one every wants to be in your position - BUT, sometimes it is best to live & learn and do get
    caught again - which in this business not an easy task.
    Dave Lambert
    FC Financial LLC
    dave@fcbankcard.com
    http://www.fcbankcard.com
    SBA 7(a) Loans
    1-727-291-7890 (Text or Leave Message)
    Office: 727-233-1111

  7. #7
    Senior Member Reputation points: 171385 ryan $'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeeman07 View Post
    IMO - Ask yourself a few questions:

    How much commission are you fighting over?
    What will it cost you in legal fees (you indicated you already retained counsel)
    How much time, aggravation, stress will you put yourself under?

    No one every wants to be in your position - BUT, sometimes it is best to live & learn and do get
    caught again - which in this business not an easy task.
    So...Living this way assholes can coast through life fucking people and never get held accountable for anything....

    This is just annoying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan $ View Post
    So...Living this way assholes can coast through life fucking people and never get held accountable for anything....

    This is just annoying.
    Do not disagree with you - just how much aggravation & stress are you willing to go thru.

    I would suspect 95% of us that have been in sales any length of time have war stories of not being paid
    compensation. I had a business owner tell me when I went to work for him "You can always trust me, I'm a Christian"

    That so-called trust cost me over $10K in unpaid commissions - Live & learn and life moves on.
    Dave Lambert
    FC Financial LLC
    dave@fcbankcard.com
    http://www.fcbankcard.com
    SBA 7(a) Loans
    1-727-291-7890 (Text or Leave Message)
    Office: 727-233-1111

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeeman07 View Post
    Do not disagree with you - just how much aggravation & stress are you willing to go thru.

    I would suspect 95% of us that have been in sales any length of time have war stories of not being paid
    compensation. I had a business owner tell me when I went to work for him "You can always trust me, I'm a Christian"

    That so-called trust cost me over $10K in unpaid commissions - Live & learn and life moves on.
    half the world has learned not to trust the I'm a Christian you can trust me, when someone says that just run. it's a strong sign they use religion not morals to decide what is right and wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loan View Post
    Long story short, a shady funder in NYC backdoored our deal and gave the merchant the typical bait and switch (take this MCA and we'll give you a 3% 10 year loan after).

    Commission was stolen, among other things that'll have legal repercussions. We've retained counsel already, but wondering if anyone had recommendations for cases like this.
    If you have retained Counsel - why ask legal opinions on a troll infested forum?
    Last edited by cruisinman; 09-22-2021 at 12:40 AM.
    " The world has always gone forward when people have dared to have crazy ideas . . . "

  11. #11
    Veteran Reputation points: 144931 J.Celifarco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael I View Post
    before you waste any money, read your iso agreement fully.One funder told me only 1 in 10 iso even ask to get the counter signed. I know some agreements have clauses that you need to submit/fund a new deal every x amount of days so if you didnt at any point from when you both signed ,you are not even an iso of theirs. Next if the iso agreement is solid , you need to make sure your proof is solid and that is was not a shopper that they can easily say they got it from someone else.
    Best of luck and Please update us what happens as i have been in this industry since 07 and do not know of one case of an iso actually winning in court vs a funder
    Best point you make here is about getting ISO agreements back countersigned. I would bet it is less than 1 in 10, meaning the vast majority of ISO's have no protections from getting screwed over. Do not submit deals to funders until you have a fully executed and valid iso agreement signed
    Last edited by J.Celifarco; 09-22-2021 at 10:07 AM.
    John Celifarco
    Managing Partner
    Horizon Funding Group

    3423 Ave S
    Brooklyn, NY 11234
    T: (347) 773-3990 | F: (718) 795-1990
    Linkedin: Profile
    Email: john@horizonfundinggroup.com

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Celifarco View Post
    Best point you make here is about getting ISO agreements back countersigned. I would bet it is less than 1 in 10, meaning the vast majority of ISO's have no protections from getting screwed over. Do not submit deals to funders until you have a fully executed and valid iso agreement signed
    The lack of legal knowledge here is overwhelming, but not surprising...seeing as how even someone without a high school degree can work at a sleazy firm and dial UCCs/backdoor. But a counter-signed agreement doesn't have a huge bearing on legal protection...but thanks for trying to provide legal advice (although wrong).

  13. #13
    Veteran Reputation points: 144931 J.Celifarco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loan View Post
    The lack of legal knowledge here is overwhelming, but not surprising...seeing as how even someone without a high school degree can work at a sleazy firm and dial UCCs/backdoor. But a counter-signed agreement doesn't have a huge bearing on legal protection...but thanks for trying to provide legal advice (although wrong).
    Having a countersigned agreement doesn't matter? I dont claim to be a legal expert but I believe that if my copy only has my signature then the Funder has to hold me to my covenants but in turn can do anything they want because I have none of the protections afforded me in the iso agreement. I could be wrong but I really don't think I am.
    John Celifarco
    Managing Partner
    Horizon Funding Group

    3423 Ave S
    Brooklyn, NY 11234
    T: (347) 773-3990 | F: (718) 795-1990
    Linkedin: Profile
    Email: john@horizonfundinggroup.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisinman View Post
    If you have retained Counsel - why ask legal opinions on a troll infested forum?
    omg cruisinman i almost forgot about you, how have you been baby boi

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Celifarco View Post
    Having a countersigned agreement doesn't matter? I dont claim to be a legal expert but I believe that if my copy only has my signature then the Funder has to hold me to my covenants but in turn can do anything they want because I have none of the protections afforded me in the iso agreement. I could be wrong but I really don't think I am.
    You are wrong, but at least you have the ability to acknowledge it.

  16. #16
    This does not seem right. I have never operated on an agreement that is not countersigned but I can't imagine that this can be a legal strategy. You could literally promise anything in a contract & then not sign your end. I don't see that happening. When a MCA contract is signed, it is rarely countersigned & sent back to the merchant. If there is a legal issue, then the funder is going to sign it & then submit it to the lawyer. I really doubt that funders are submitting future purchase agreements, without them signing them, to the courts.

    When you control the money (Funder & Commission), you control the conversation. If there is not a countersigned agreement, then what governs the relationship? Nothing. Who benefits from this? The one that controls the money.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by mistamca View Post
    This does not seem right. I have never operated on an agreement that is not countersigned but I can't imagine that this can be a legal strategy. You could literally promise anything in a contract & then not sign your end. I don't see that happening. When a MCA contract is signed, it is rarely countersigned & sent back to the merchant. If there is a legal issue, then the funder is going to sign it & then submit it to the lawyer. I really doubt that funders are submitting future purchase agreements, without them signing them, to the courts.

    When you control the money (Funder & Commission), you control the conversation. If there is not a countersigned agreement, then what governs the relationship? Nothing. Who benefits from this? The one that controls the money.
    Nice story there buddy. But you're forgetting one thing - there are state laws that govern commercial transaction. A funder can write whatever the f*** they want (and most high-risk funders just copy off of others), but if it violates the law, there is a case. For example, if you agree to mow someone's lawn and get paid, and they don't pay you (and no contract was signed), does that mean you can't sue them? Hell no. You can.

    The legal system is complex, and I shouldn't have expected MCA brokers/funders that can barely string a coherent sentence together or construct a logical argument with ffacts to actually provide useful advice. But anyway, some people just accept backdooring.

    And regarding the "stress and aggravation", there shouldn't be any. If this stresses you out the MCA industry is not for you. Anyway, glad this at least sparked a conversation to make people think.

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    loan,
    please share the case number so we can follow how this goes and learn better how the legal system works in regard to our industry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bcooper View Post
    omg cruisinman i almost forgot about you, how have you been baby boi
    All good . . .
    Last edited by cruisinman; 09-26-2021 at 06:16 PM.
    " The world has always gone forward when people have dared to have crazy ideas . . . "

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisinman View Post
    All good . . .
    how is the mlm going hunny bunches

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bcooper View Post
    how is the mlm going hunny bunches
    Going to launch in 2Q22 with a model that is simpler . . .
    " The world has always gone forward when people have dared to have crazy ideas . . . "

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisinman View Post
    Going to launch in 2Q22 with a model that is simpler . . .
    so you are just going to have brokers and have them bring you deals and broker them like a normal iso office?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisinman View Post
    Going to launch in 2Q22 with a model that is simpler . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by Bcooper View Post
    so you are just going to have brokers and have them bring you deals and broker them like a normal iso office?
    Kinda.

    Going to have virtual "offices" in various Cities / States that will have Brokers. If you refer a Broker, you will earn a bonus on their production. Just the 2 levels and a Nationwide Profit Pool where Brokers earn a % based on their "total" Team's production.

    We will use a Call Center to create appointments. Brokers will purchase the appointments -or- operate at a reduced commission.
    " The world has always gone forward when people have dared to have crazy ideas . . . "

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    Quote Originally Posted by loan View Post
    Nice story there buddy. But you're forgetting one thing - there are state laws that govern commercial transaction. A funder can write whatever the f*** they want (and most high-risk funders just copy off of others), but if it violates the law, there is a case. For example, if you agree to mow someone's lawn and get paid, and they don't pay you (and no contract was signed), does that mean you can't sue them? Hell no. You can.

    The legal system is complex, and I shouldn't have expected MCA brokers/funders that can barely string a coherent sentence together or construct a logical argument with ffacts to actually provide useful advice. But anyway, some people just accept backdooring.

    And regarding the "stress and aggravation", there shouldn't be any. If this stresses you out the MCA industry is not for you. Anyway, glad this at least sparked a conversation to make people think.


    So just to dig a little bit (Lord knows I dig enough with this community service beach work), if I mow your lawn and you don’t pay me, and no one saw me mow the lawn, and you say we had no agreement and you never told me to mow, and there’s no signed contract, yeah I can sue (anyone and their momma can sue anyone), but how would I win, and justify the money I spent on legal counsel?

    At www.dumbleads.com, we justify our legal expenses by thinking about what merchants would do if they figured out how we gently coerce them to sign funding contracts with visits to their favorite restaurant.

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