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  1. #1

    Negative Days / Credit Card Splits

    Is anyone ACTUALLY doing credit card splits these days??

    Who is funding merchants who have several negative days per month (think Yellowstone pre-Covid).

  2. #2
    Senior Member Reputation points: 7232 NationalCorporateData's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FundingTap123 View Post
    Is anyone ACTUALLY doing credit card splits these days??

    Who is funding merchants who have several negative days per month (think Yellowstone pre-Covid).
    What is several? Almost all funders will work with a business that has a few NSFs/negative-ending days.

    True splits are still done by BFS (renewals only), Credibly, Elevate, LG Funding, Mulligan, PIRS, Quikstone, and Rapid.

  3. #3
    I just got one done with Birchwood. They're a small boutique funder and I've never had any funny business w/ my deals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NationalCorporateData View Post
    What is several? Almost all funders will work with a business that has a few NSFs/negative-ending days.

    True splits are still done by BFS (renewals only), Credibly, Elevate, LG Funding, Mulligan, PIRS, Quikstone, and Rapid.
    Anyone have a contact at Mulligan, I have called/sent emails several times over the past few years, can never get a response to sign up

    Ive seen them go out like 20 months tho, crazy

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    Contact us at 646-547-2105, we could assist you in this deal. We do CC Splits in high risk deals. Thanks

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    Senior Member Reputation points: 7232 NationalCorporateData's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan $ View Post
    Anyone have a contact at Mulligan, I have called/sent emails several times over the past few years, can never get a response to sign up

    Ive seen them go out like 20 months tho, crazy
    20 months might be their "hero" pricing. Longer term, lower markup.

    Edgar Lopez - Partner Relationship Manager | (858) 427-0010 | elopez@mulliganfunding.com
    Eric Roberts - Partner Relationship Manager | (858) 427-5660 | eroberts@mulliganfunding.com
    Vanessa Arellano - Partner Relationship Manager | (858) 427-5664 | varellano@mulliganfunding.com
    Aidai Tologonova - Partner Channel Support | atologonova@mulliganfunding.com

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    Rapid will do crazy deals w/ high negative days. Funded one last month w/ 9 negative days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FundingTap123 View Post
    Is anyone ACTUALLY doing credit card splits these days??

    Who is funding merchants who have several negative days per month (think Yellowstone pre-Covid).
    That is the advantage of credit card splits / lock box - Negative days are not a factor and moving forward,
    with lock box in place - that eliminates ACH Rejects.

    Contact me if you wish to discuss.
    Dave Lambert, Business Development
    dave@fcbankcard.com
    Merchant Services Consultant
    High Risk Merchant Payment Solutions
    SBA 7(a) Loans & Short-Term Funding
    T/VM: 727-291-7890
    Office: 727-233-1111
    Skype: fc-financial

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeeman07 View Post
    That is the advantage of credit card splits / lock box - Negative days are not a factor and moving forward,
    with lock box in place - that eliminates ACH Rejects.

    Contact me if you wish to discuss.
    That's an extremely poor way to look at underwriting. If the merchant is already negative every single day of the month, and then you come in and take a 25%+ credit card holdback, they're going to go that much further into the hole. How long do you think that's sustainable before the merchant goes belly up?

    I agree that you can get away with a merchant having more negative days than would be acceptable on an ACH program, but some of these funders are idiots funding merchant splits with 15+ negative days every month. Only a matter of time before they open up another terminal and start running the majority, if not all, of their credit card deposits through there citing "people just haven't been paying with card as much lately".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeeman07 View Post
    That is the advantage of credit card splits / lock box - Negative days are not a factor and moving forward,
    with lock box in place - that eliminates ACH Rejects.

    Contact me if you wish to discuss.
    Do you even fund bro?
    If a merchant has NSF/Overdraft Issues, how would a split or lockbox eliminate them? This is the biggest bonehead comment Ive ever seen you make (and its you - so that says a lot)

    It is simple logical thinking, if a merchant has NSF/Overdraft Issues, and you put him in a split, what happens? LESS money gets to that very same bank account with the issues and therfore does what? Survey says? CAUSES MORE ISSUES (Number 1 Answer)

    Yea the Lender gets paid, but what happens when they close his account for bouncing **** left and right? Or he goes out of business? What happens to your Magical Lockbox then?

    A Lockbox isnt a Magic Wand.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ryan $ View Post
    Do you even fund bro?
    If a merchant has NSF/Overdraft Issues, how would a split or lockbox eliminate them? This is the biggest bonehead comment Ive ever seen you make (and its you - so that says a lot)

    It is simple logical thinking, if a merchant has NSF/Overdraft Issues, and you put him in a split, what happens? LESS money gets to that very same bank account with the issues and therfore does what? Survey says? CAUSES MORE ISSUES (Number 1 Answer)

    Yea the Lender gets paid, but what happens when they close his account for bouncing **** left and right? Or he goes out of business? What happens to your Magical Lockbox then?

    A Lockbox isnt a Magic Wand.
    THANK YOU! Agreed 100%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan $ View Post
    Do you even fund bro?
    If a merchant has NSF/Overdraft Issues, how would a split or lockbox eliminate them? This is the biggest bonehead comment Ive ever seen you make (and its you - so that says a lot)

    It is simple logical thinking, if a merchant has NSF/Overdraft Issues, and you put him in a split, what happens? LESS money gets to that very same bank account with the issues and therfore does what? Survey says? CAUSES MORE ISSUES (Number 1 Answer)

    Yea the Lender gets paid, but what happens when they close his account for bouncing **** left and right? Or he goes out of business? What happens to your Magical Lockbox then?

    A Lockbox isnt a Magic Wand.

    I'm not your bro ! What are you 25 years old?

    Yes we fund. Numerous negative days is not the only factor in underwriting an account.
    A funder (or at least the company I rep) looks at the complete file, TIB, Monthly Sales Volume,
    Credit Score and almost the number 1 Factor - WHAT IS THE USAGE OF FUNDS!

    Will the funding generate additional revenue and profit.

    What occurs with a lock-box is that the funder (us) receives payments on-time without any risk
    of ACH Reject Fees and the compounding of stacked late payments and fees.

    We want the merchant to stay in business - it is not SOP to give funding to merchants
    that are closing their doors.

    BTW - you may not be old to enough to know this but the original MCA Product was a credit card split / lock-box.
    My 1st exposure was via United Bank Card (1999?) when they partnered with Amer-Finance (Mike DeAngelo?) ( someone can check my
    memory & history)

    If you conduct a Google Keyword search for Merchant Cash Advance. most of your initial results will refer to an MCA
    as a Credit Card Split.

    **The original post was "Who is funding merchants who have several negative days per month" - Is several negative days 3 or 5 or 7, 15?
    It was a general question, and I responded, yes, we can POSSIBLY fund that type of account.

    Who the F** Asked you for you 1 cent opinion?
    Dave Lambert, Business Development
    dave@fcbankcard.com
    Merchant Services Consultant
    High Risk Merchant Payment Solutions
    SBA 7(a) Loans & Short-Term Funding
    T/VM: 727-291-7890
    Office: 727-233-1111
    Skype: fc-financial

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeeman07 View Post
    I'm not your bro ! What are you 25 years old?

    Yes we fund. Numerous negative days is not the only factor in underwriting an account.
    A funder (or at least the company I rep) looks at the complete file, TIB, Monthly Sales Volume,
    Credit Score and almost the number 1 Factor - WHAT IS THE USAGE OF FUNDS!

    Will the funding generate additional revenue and profit.

    What occurs with a lock-box is that the funder (us) receives payments on-time without any risk
    of ACH Reject Fees and the compounding of stacked late payments and fees.

    We want the merchant to stay in business - it is not SOP to give funding to merchants
    that are closing their doors.

    BTW - you may not be old to enough to know this but the original MCA Product was a credit card split / lock-box.
    My 1st exposure was via United Bank Card (1999?) when they partnered with Amer-Finance (Mike DeAngelo?) ( someone can check my
    memory & history)

    If you conduct a Google Keyword search for Merchant Cash Advance. most of your initial results will refer to an MCA
    as a Credit Card Split.

    **The original post was "Who is funding merchants who have several negative days per month" - Is several negative days 3 or 5 or 7, 15?
    It was a general question, and I responded, yes, we can POSSIBLY fund that type of account.

    Who the F** Asked you for you 1 cent opinion?
    Asking a merchant what their "usage of funds" has got to be a joke... It really doesn't matter what they say they're going to use the funds for because most of the time they're lying and after they receive the funds, there's nothing stopping them from just going on a vacation or buying themselves a new TV.

  14. #14
    Veteran Reputation points: 157541 J.Celifarco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeeman07 View Post
    I'm not your bro ! What are you 25 years old?

    Yes we fund. Numerous negative days is not the only factor in underwriting an account.
    A funder (or at least the company I rep) looks at the complete file, TIB, Monthly Sales Volume,
    Credit Score and almost the number 1 Factor - WHAT IS THE USAGE OF FUNDS!

    Will the funding generate additional revenue and profit.

    What occurs with a lock-box is that the funder (us) receives payments on-time without any risk
    of ACH Reject Fees and the compounding of stacked late payments and fees.

    We want the merchant to stay in business - it is not SOP to give funding to merchants
    that are closing their doors.

    BTW - you may not be old to enough to know this but the original MCA Product was a credit card split / lock-box.
    My 1st exposure was via United Bank Card (1999?) when they partnered with Amer-Finance (Mike DeAngelo?) ( someone can check my
    memory & history)

    If you conduct a Google Keyword search for Merchant Cash Advance. most of your initial results will refer to an MCA
    as a Credit Card Split.

    **The original post was "Who is funding merchants who have several negative days per month" - Is several negative days 3 or 5 or 7, 15?
    It was a general question, and I responded, yes, we can POSSIBLY fund that type of account.

    Who the F** Asked you for you 1 cent opinion?
    Split deals are made for people who have a few negative days in their account. I would think that is something anyone in this industry should know. This industry was built on split deals, if you don't know that then you have no idea what the MCA is or how it was built.
    John Celifarco
    Managing Partner
    Horizon Funding Group

    3423 Ave S
    Brooklyn, NY 11234
    T: (347) 773-3990 | F: (718) 795-1990
    Linkedin: Profile
    Email: john@horizonfundinggroup.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Celifarco View Post
    Split deals are made for people who have a few negative days in their account. I would think that is something anyone in this industry should know. This industry was built on split deals, if you don't know that then you have no idea what the MCA is or how it was built.
    Split deals were really made for everyone. Everyone who wanted $$$.
    It was a world where only 1st Positions existed, renewed your Merchants and kept them for years.
    Then ACH Product came out, YS, Pearl, Not really sure who did it first. It was just 1st and 2nds for a while.
    Then sure enough....we get to now. Ive seen 18 Positions in One deal.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Celifarco View Post
    Split deals are made for people who have a few negative days in their account. I would think that is something anyone in this industry should know. This industry was built on split deals, if you don't know that then you have no idea what the MCA is or how it was built.
    Here you go on your high horse again, no-one is as good or knowledgeable as you; in the amount of time that it took you to type that you could have gave the poor guy a brief summary. Maybe this is the reason the industry has a target in its back, because no-one is willing to teach and guide newbies on the right path so people have to do what they have to do. Come on John, you can do better than this. There has to be a day you can remember where you didn't know everything.

  17. #17
    Veteran Reputation points: 157541 J.Celifarco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan $ View Post
    Split deals were really made for everyone. Everyone who wanted $$$.
    It was a world where only 1st Positions existed, renewed your Merchants and kept them for years.
    Then ACH Product came out, YS, Pearl, Not really sure who did it first. It was just 1st and 2nds for a while.
    Then sure enough....we get to now. Ive seen 18 Positions in One deal.
    I think First Funds was the first company to do ACH only deals but I could be wrong. I know @Sean Bash would remember if he sees this. I do know the first time I saw an ach deal I thought it was crazy, I think that was like 08 again could be wrong.
    John Celifarco
    Managing Partner
    Horizon Funding Group

    3423 Ave S
    Brooklyn, NY 11234
    T: (347) 773-3990 | F: (718) 795-1990
    Linkedin: Profile
    Email: john@horizonfundinggroup.com

  18. #18
    A forum user Reputation points: 2147483647 Sean Cash's Avatar
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    I think First Funds did them first, but were too ahead of their time. Then it was indeed either Pearl or YS, but years later. It was considered insane but it disrupted the whole industry. While you were sitting there waiting 2 weeks for your merchant's POS system to be switched over, they could come in and fund basically same day without switching anything over. It became impossible to compete against. Who are you going to go with? The guy messing with your credit card machine that's going to take a week or more, cause early termination fees, and create unknowns for your business OR the guy telling you he'll fund you today, same amount, same cost, no switching anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheUnderwritingProdigy View Post
    Asking a merchant what their "usage of funds" has got to be a joke... It really doesn't matter what they say they're going to use the funds for because most of the time they're lying and after they receive the funds, there's nothing stopping them from just going on a vacation or buying themselves a new TV.
    Agreed. I don't know any underwriters that take usage of funds seriously in MCA. You simply can't trust the merchant's word on it, and there's nothing anyone can do to stop them misusing the funds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Cash View Post
    I think First Funds did them first, but were too ahead of their time. Then it was indeed either Pearl or YS, but years later. It was considered insane but it disrupted the whole industry. While you were sitting there waiting 2 weeks for your merchant's POS system to be switched over, they could come in and fund basically same day without switching anything over. It became impossible to compete against. Who are you going to go with? The guy messing with your credit card machine that's going to take a week or more, cause early termination fees, and create unknowns for your business OR the guy telling you he'll fund you today, same amount, same cost, no switching anything.
    There ya go, Never worked with First Funds.....until they became Principis.
    Did like100% of Business with MCC for first few years.

  21. #21
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    A credit card split does not require any messing with a terminal. It is a DDA Change authorized by the merchant.
    The delay could come from the data entry and in our situation we do not fund until we see at least 1 batch in the
    new DDA (Lock box) - In mos instances it is not an issue - The merchant wants the funds - therefore he/she can
    push their processor to change the DDA
    Dave Lambert, Business Development
    dave@fcbankcard.com
    Merchant Services Consultant
    High Risk Merchant Payment Solutions
    SBA 7(a) Loans & Short-Term Funding
    T/VM: 727-291-7890
    Office: 727-233-1111
    Skype: fc-financial

  22. #22
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    keep in mind a lockbox will delay merchant getting their deposits by 1-2days. if the merchant is a restaurant that delay will cause hell for them on their busy days, fri sat sunday.

  23. #23
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    If the merchant has switched processing, that will eliminate the 1 day delay.
    Dave Lambert, Business Development
    dave@fcbankcard.com
    Merchant Services Consultant
    High Risk Merchant Payment Solutions
    SBA 7(a) Loans & Short-Term Funding
    T/VM: 727-291-7890
    Office: 727-233-1111
    Skype: fc-financial

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanh View Post
    Rapid will do crazy deals w/ high negative days. Funded one last month w/ 9 negative days.
    I thought A paper funders don’t touch negative days. Please help me understand this?

    I’m assuming your merchant had stellar credit and OD protection?

    I should send all my negative day merchants to a A paper funder?

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by TeamFund View Post
    I thought A paper funders don’t touch negative days. Please help me understand this?

    I’m assuming your merchant had stellar credit and OD protection?

    I should send all my negative day merchants to a A paper funder?
    It's hit or miss with negative days and A paper players. From what I've seen, most of them will allow some negative days in the 3 months of cashflow but they want them spread out, not all in the most recent month. You also have to take the ADB into account. If a business has 1 neg day a month but maintains a 10k ADB, that's a lot more doable than a biz that has 1 neg day a mo but has a $300 ADB.

    Call your A paper shops and ask them for their negative day guidelines.

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