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  1. #1

    Angry Lender Issues?

    Hi DF'ers ,

    First post ever and I was curious.

    I wanted to know if you'd experienced the same, maybe shine some light on the topic of discussion. I was working with a lender (Out of professional courtesy I'll choose not to share the name) and as soon as I requested contracts for my client, my client reported to me the very next day that someone went into his account and withdrew $12,000. Now I hate to point fingers BUT it is oddly coincidental that this happened the very same day we requested contracts. I've since reached out to the lender who is no longer interested in working with me or my company.

    Has this ever happened to any of you? If so, Would love to hear more about what exactly I should proceed to do and also how to help my client who has since received his money back from the bank but still to no avail as to who stole these funds.

    Further explanation: Someone showed up to his bank branches with a Credit card (that he doesn't own) that has his name on it and a passport, As proof that it is him.. (which he also doesn't have) Withdrew $4,000 from 4 different branches.

    As a broker, you can hopefully understand my concern here and will NEVER be recommending this lender again.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Brokerbuddy View Post
    Hi DF'ers ,

    First post ever and I was curious.

    I wanted to know if you'd experienced the same, maybe shine some light on the topic of discussion. I was working with a lender (Out of professional courtesy I'll choose not to share the name) and as soon as I requested contracts for my client, my client reported to me the very next day that someone went into his account and withdrew $12,000. Now I hate to point fingers BUT it is oddly coincidental that this happened the very same day we requested contracts. I've since reached out to the lender who is no longer interested in working with me or my company.

    Has this ever happened to any of you? If so, Would love to hear more about what exactly I should proceed to do and also how to help my client who has since received his money back from the bank but still to no avail as to who stole these funds.

    Further explanation: Someone showed up to his bank branches with a Credit card (that he doesn't own) that has his name on it and a passport, As proof that it is him.. (which he also doesn't have) Withdrew $4,000 from 4 different branches.

    As a broker, you can hopefully understand my concern here and will NEVER be recommending this lender again.
    How are you proving that the lender did this ? maybe he doesn't want to work with you because he thinks you are crazy for bringing up this type of theory.

    I honestly doubt this was the lender, if they are an established lender/funder maybe the only thing that would make sense is a rogue employee but even then I would be careful with using their name unless you are 100% sure that it was them. Its a pretty serious allegation. I would just wait and let the authorities do their job, if someone walked into a branch they should have video.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by FlexibleCapitalSolutions View Post
    How are you proving that the lender did this ? maybe he doesn't want to work with you because he thinks you are crazy for bringing up this type of theory.

    I honestly doubt this was the lender, if they are an established lender/funder maybe the only thing that would make sense is a rogue employee but even then I would be careful with using their name unless you are 100% sure that it was them. Its a pretty serious allegation. I would just wait and let the authorities do their job, if someone walked into a branch they should have video.
    Absolutely agree here, which is why I attempted to be so vague in my post. I believe in innocence until proven guilty. However the merchant has since reached the lender directly about this issue and they assured him they have legal working on it. This being the first time this happened to me or one of my clients I was curious to see if anyone else had come accross something similar in our industry.

  4. #4
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    Are you able to clarify: did merchant have 12k withdrawn via ACH and then 4k x 4 physically ?
    meaning there were 2 scams?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Akanner View Post
    Are you able to clarify: did merchant have 12k withdrawn via ACH and then 4k x 4 physically ?
    meaning there were 2 scams?
    Apologies; To clarify, the total amount taken out of his account was $12,000. 4 different physical withdrawals.

  6. #6
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    It sounds like maybe it was someone that works by them. Can you explain a bit more about why the lender is no longer interested in working with your company. Thats not so normal. There must be more to this story.

  7. #7
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    Desperate people do desperate things. But if its a known funder, I dont see how it would make sense for them to ruin their business for an amount so little.

    But these things have been happening a lot more nowadays. These credit/debit cards, fake ID's and even checks are coming from overseas, preferably China. This actually has happened to a couple businesses we have marketed advising this has happened to them.

    My suggestion is to file a police report and let the authorities handle it, along with filing with your local Attorney General. If it wasn't him and they withdrew from the bank, they can clearly see it was not the merchant from the cameras. They should be protected.
    Last edited by WCC_NYC; 09-01-2020 at 06:12 PM.

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    I was waiting to chime in over here to get a fuller picture, but a fake ID shouldn't be able to be produced overnight. Even a week seems like it could be pushing it, I can't imagine for $12k a funder would pull a crazy stunt. What Roger said sounds good.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCN View Post
    There must be more to this story.
    There always is, we usually only hear one side.

    The main point that doesn't make sense is, a contract was ordered. Then on 4 different occasions, someone physically walked into his bank and withdrew a total of 12K... so why is the "lender" (I assume they're a funder?) assuring the merchant that "Legal" is working on it after cutting the broker off? Are they admitting liability here?

    Something seems way off. I've never heard of this happening in 12 years of doing this.
    Last edited by ridextreme; 09-01-2020 at 08:15 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridextreme View Post
    There always is, we usually only hear one side.

    The main point that doesn't make sense is, a contract was ordered. Then on 4 different occasions, someone physically walked into his bank and withdrew a total of 12K... so why is the "lender" (I assume they're a funder?) assuring the merchant that "Legal" is working on it after cutting the broker off? Are they admitting liability here?

    Something seems way off. I've never heard of this happening in 12 years of doing this.
    Agreed that it is weird that the funder is mentioning something about legal unless:
    1. They are just saying that to make the merchant feel good that someone is working on the case for him
    2. The funder is telling that to the merchant since there is now a possible issue of ID fraud. (Either to cover themselves, which may be fair or since they are actually guilty - im not one to speculate since I really dont know the whole story at all.)

    Another issue which goes along the lines of abfunders detective skills, like an ID, a Credit card also takes some time to make and ship. (unless this con man is that bold)

  11. #11
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    If the funder is saying legal is working on it, i can only assume they know something. My guess is they have a rotten employee in their ranks.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wcc_nyc View Post
    desperate people do desperate things. But if its a known funder, i dont see how it would make sense for them to ruin their business for an amount so little.

    But these things have been happening a lot more nowadays. These credit/debit cards, fake id's and even checks are coming from overseas, preferably china. This actually has happened to a couple businesses we have marketed advising this has happened to them.

    My suggestion is to file a police report and let the authorities handle it, along with filing with your local attorney general. If it wasn't him and they withdrew from the bank, they can clearly see it was not the merchant from the cameras. They should be protected.


    chyyy-naaaa

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ridextreme View Post
    There always is, we usually only hear one side.

    The main point that doesn't make sense is, a contract was ordered. Then on 4 different occasions, someone physically walked into his bank and withdrew a total of 12K... so why is the "lender" (I assume they're a funder?) assuring the merchant that "Legal" is working on it after cutting the broker off? Are they admitting liability here?

    Something seems way off. I've never heard of this happening in 12 years of doing this.
    You're hearing 1 side to this story because I cannot speak for the actions of those who might be involved. I can only speak from my experience and from what I'm told regarding the situation. I can only speculate what it is other have experienced. If you haven't seen anything like this in 12 years then this is an odd occurrence. I haven't been around as long as you in this industry so was curious how often something like this comes up and wanted to open the floor to see what others have to say about similar if not identical experiences.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by MCN View Post
    If the funder is saying legal is working on it, i can only assume they know something. My guess is they have a rotten employee in their ranks.
    Which was my initial thought as well.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by abfunders View Post
    I was waiting to chime in over here to get a fuller picture, but a fake ID shouldn't be able to be produced overnight. Even a week seems like it could be pushing it, I can't imagine for $12k a funder would pull a crazy stunt. What Roger said sounds good.
    I t wasn't an ID it was a fraudulent passport. However the thought is the same on this, to me it feels like they moved way to fast, although I wouldn't know how long it takes to make fraudulent ID's and Passports nowdays.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by MCN View Post
    It sounds like maybe it was someone that works by them. Can you explain a bit more about why the lender is no longer interested in working with your company. Thats not so normal. There must be more to this story.
    Absolutely, we aren't able to work with this lender any longer for two reasons; 1. The lender after speaking with this merchant was not satisfied with how "Professional" he is. (He's a new york contractor; he tends to swear) after that conversation the lender must've concluded that this merchant is not going to be moving forward with the deal and because of this, the lender will not be accepting any deals from us. However, now that this had come up I'm not sure I'd want to work with them anyway.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by WCC_NYC View Post
    Desperate people do desperate things. But if its a known funder, I dont see how it would make sense for them to ruin their business for an amount so little.

    But these things have been happening a lot more nowadays. These credit/debit cards, fake ID's and even checks are coming from overseas, preferably China. This actually has happened to a couple businesses we have marketed advising this has happened to them.

    My suggestion is to file a police report and let the authorities handle it, along with filing with your local Attorney General. If it wasn't him and they withdrew from the bank, they can clearly see it was not the merchant from the cameras. They should be protected.
    This took place in a different state then we are in, Would love to discuss about how to properly file this police report if you're so that we're doing everything we can for our merchant.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brokerbuddy View Post
    This took place in a different state then we are in, Would love to discuss about how to properly file this police report if you're so that we're doing everything we can for our merchant.
    File a police report local to you and local to the bank where it occurred. Contact your local FBI office and let them know as well. If it involved anything over the internet/email you can contact your local United States Secret Service Cyber Crime Lab. Make sure the bank has filed a suspicious activity report.

    KH
    Hedley Lamarr......That's Hedley

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridextreme View Post

    Something seems way off. I've never heard of this happening in 12 years of doing this.
    I have and every time it was a merchant trying to get double funded. That account had fraud/stolen money had to close it and here is the brand new account so you dont see who i got.No funder is committing federal jail time crimes.I will be shocked if merchant will be able to send you the police report he should file or even the official interaction with the bank .
    Oh i remember the days i was naive and always believed my merchants

  20. #20
    Senior Member Reputation points: 99227 ridextreme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brokerbuddy View Post
    Absolutely, we aren't able to work with this lender any longer for two reasons; 1. The lender after speaking with this merchant was not satisfied with how "Professional" he is. (He's a new york contractor; he tends to swear) after that conversation the lender must've concluded that this merchant is not going to be moving forward with the deal and because of this, the lender will not be accepting any deals from us. However, now that this had come up I'm not sure I'd want to work with them anyway.
    So the UW or whoever your merchant spoke with, didn't like him bc he's an unprofessional NY Contractor, and because of that, they're not accepting any more deals from you? I would bet money there's a lot more to this story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Henry-Seacoast View Post
    File a police report local to you and local to the bank where it occurred. Contact your local FBI office and let them know as well. If it involved anything over the internet/email you can contact your local United States Secret Service Cyber Crime Lab. Make sure the bank has filed a suspicious activity report.

    KH
    The Merchant is the one who needs to file these reports, since he's the alleged victim.
    Last edited by ridextreme; 09-02-2020 at 06:26 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael I View Post
    I have and every time it was a merchant trying to get double funded. That account had fraud/stolen money had to close it and here is the brand new account so you dont see who i got.No funder is committing federal jail time crimes.I will be shocked if merchant will be able to send you the police report he should file or even the official interaction with the bank .
    Oh i remember the days i was naive and always believed my merchants
    Michael, like the one about how he stopped making the payments, and he has a sick family member abroad and has to go visit her, so he won't answer phone? Yeah, I believed it the first time I heard it also. I think we had a thread of bad merchant excuses.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ridextreme View Post
    So the UW or whoever your merchant spoke with, didn't like him bc he's an unprofessional NY Contractor, and because of that, they're not accepting any more deals from you? I would bet money there's a lot more to this story.



    The Merchant is the one who needs to file these reports, since he's the victim.


    Absolutely, they claim it's because to the Underwriter that "This wasn't the deal I agreed on and am only looking for XYZ." (which was his form of negotiating.)

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Henry-Seacoast View Post
    File a police report local to you and local to the bank where it occurred. Contact your local FBI office and let them know as well. If it involved anything over the internet/email you can contact your local United States Secret Service Cyber Crime Lab. Make sure the bank has filed a suspicious activity report.

    KH
    This is a perfect answer. I 100% agree with it.

    Thank you Kevin !

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brokerbuddy View Post
    Absolutely, they claim it's because to the Underwriter that "This wasn't the deal I agreed on and am only looking for XYZ." (which was his form of negotiating.)
    Ok so you were basically cut off for pushing the guy to take a max deal. It's starting to make more sense now. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abfunders View Post
    Michael, like the one about how he stopped making the payments, and he has a sick family member abroad and has to go visit her, so he won't answer phone? Yeah, I believed it the first time I heard it also. I think we had a thread of bad merchant excuses.
    Iv had a merchant tell me he was a family member funeral at least 5 times in the course of one loan

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