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  1. #76
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    Why do most of you all think merchants are stupid? If a merchant can't do critical thinking, comprehension, and problem solving, that's a bigger issue that needs to be addressed. If a merchant accepts a crazy deal they are offered, why is it the industry's fault? Perhaps incorporate an aspect of your show to trying to teach merchants and people these very important skills.. not only will it benefit businesses, those skills will benefit a person their entire life. Teach people how to see though the BS..

    Also let's not even mix religion with economics or capitalism. Remember that people were going to church on Sunday, and whipping the slaves on Monday.

    Regarding predatory lending.. Have any of you had a loved one diagnosed with stage 4 cancer? I had a sibling that was diagnosed, and had a very very very slim chance of recovery. But that did not stop the doctors from offering all these various forms of chemo therapy, and special test drugs and programs that cost crazy amounts of money, when they knew that the quality of life would suck while going through these various treatments and most likely she was going to end up on hospice in a few months anyway.. That's the pinnacle of predatory lending I would think.
    Last edited by Winning; 07-19-2020 at 12:16 AM.

  2. #77

    Beware of False Prophets

    ..
    Last edited by OF_Funder; 07-19-2020 at 04:41 AM. Reason: A

  3. #78
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    So basically everyone is evil, take advantage of people who can’t do “critical thinking”, and if doctors can be predatory why can’t we?

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcfunder View Post
    So basically everyone is evil, take advantage of people who can’t do “critical thinking”, and if doctors can be predatory why can’t we?
    Dude you are missing the point .every industry has good and bad apples. If you are doing nothing wrong ,this industry helps people ,who can make their own decisions on how to run their business

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael I View Post
    Dude you are missing the point .every industry has good and bad apples. If you are doing nothing wrong ,this industry helps people ,who can make their own decisions on how to run their business
    The reality is that 80% of merchants know exactly what’s going on. They get it. Whether you lie or not. They can always send back the funds if they really want to. Most funders will agree to cancel the deal even after the wire is sent.

    Do brokers lie? Yes.
    Do funders backdoor? Yes.

    But ask yourself this- did any of these people bashing MCA ever lie to their own merchants, brokers or funders? The answer is most certainly Yes.

    Ask yourself- do merchants lie to their brokers and funders just to get money? Answer is Yes.

    So welcome to capitalism. Not everything is perfect. You try to keep yourself above the water and keep going. Try as much as possible to do clean and honest business.

    And the main thing: mind your own business. Don’t fix the world.

  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by SmartAdvanced View Post
    The reality is that 80% of merchants know exactly what’s going on. They get it. Whether you lie or not. They can always send back the funds if they really want to. Most funders will agree to cancel the deal even after the wire is sent.

    Do brokers lie? Yes.
    Do funders backdoor? Yes.

    But ask yourself this- did any of these people bashing MCA ever lie to their own merchants, brokers or funders? The answer is most certainly Yes.

    Ask yourself- do merchants lie to their brokers and funders just to get money? Answer is Yes.

    So welcome to capitalism. Not everything is perfect. You try to keep yourself above the water and keep going. Try as much as possible to do clean and honest business.

    And the main thing: mind your own business. Don’t fix the world.
    80% of merchants is as random of a number you can pull. Nobody in this space has the exact same ratio, statistic, or percentage of merchants that know anything of anything. In my 15 years, I’d fully disagree with your number and drop it below 40% of merchants that actually know what’s up. And I’ve seen funders freeze bank accounts the moment a merchant calls them to send back the money. So unless that funder/lender is legit and vetted out, and you’ve read every inch of your terms and conditions, I’d never recommend just calling up a funder/lender to send back your funding.

    Homie, I get you. I never thought this was necessary for me to get involved with. I for years saw other people in the space trying to bring change, but then I started to learn that those same people were involved in the ****. Then it became a personal mission to fight for change, and I did that with my funding company. Trying to get their credit fixed, and assist with getting their books in order. And most of the people involved in this project joined that fight way before AFN was even a thought. And we’ve now grown, and hope to continue.

    We just don’t want to cope anymore with the environment, And believe this is OUR business, and believe change is possible if people try and fight for it.

    Capitalism used to be a goal, now it’s an excuse. That’s how you know ****s backwards. There are a lot less people able to keep their heads above water right now, and certain people seem to be flying higher than before in private jets.

  7. #82
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    1) David, watch your language if you are wearing a kippah in public. Seriously.

    2) Capitalism: The worst economic system, except for all the others (not really Churchill, but very true, he was talking about Democracy as a political system)
    Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here. Fight to regulate in the right way. You yourself while being the knight in shining armor doing credit repair with The Credit Desk were funding and saw the needs for funding to "get them over the hump" and it was a good place to be, but you have emotional regrets it appears. You can't be UPSET at someone for exercising their rights to buy what they want with their money (future non-existent AR) for profit. You can try to reform it, make the sales more legit, but it really should be done within the context of capitalism and let it self-correct as best as possible, because socialism just doesn't work, nor does it encourage people to learn to make good decisions for themselves. At the same time, give some "buyer protection" and don't let merchants steal.

    David, how do you make money on this? Donations? YouTube hits? Merchants coming to you for advice and then you fund them with a cash advance, credit repair, and broker them to the bank?

  8. #83
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    I actually love this answer because it’s so blunt, honest, and to the point but if I’m ever in a situation where I need to decide whether to do what’s right or wrong, I’ll always pick to do what’s right.

    *this response is to smartadvanced
    Last edited by pcfunder; 07-19-2020 at 05:02 PM.

  9. #84
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    I love this too and 100% agree. It’s interesting to see both sides of the point but my soul just seems to lean more towards the idea that cash advances are wrong and need a drastic change.

    * this response is to good customer service sorry I’m on a phone
    Last edited by pcfunder; 07-19-2020 at 04:46 PM.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by abfunders View Post
    1) David, watch your language if you are wearing a kippah in public. Seriously.

    2) Capitalism: The worst economic system, except for all the others (not really Churchill, but very true, he was talking about Democracy as a political system)
    Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here. Fight to regulate in the right way. You yourself while being the knight in shining armor doing credit repair with The Credit Desk were funding and saw the needs for funding to "get them over the hump" and it was a good place to be, but you have emotional regrets it appears. You can't be UPSET at someone for exercising their rights to buy what they want with their money (future non-existent AR) for profit. You can try to reform it, make the sales more legit, but it really should be done within the context of capitalism and let it self-correct as best as possible, because socialism just doesn't work, nor does it encourage people to learn to make good decisions for themselves. At the same time, give some "buyer protection" and don't let merchants steal.

    David, how do you make money on this? Donations? YouTube hits? Merchants coming to you for advice and then you fund them with a cash advance, credit repair, and broker them to the bank?
    Kinda odd to be threatening to someone who’s looking at cash advances in another angle. This post alone almost explains everything wrong with cash advances in its entirety. David don’t worry about being chastised at all. Your allowed to open up a discussion about how our industry might need some changes. Every industry needs to continuously evaluate themselves and see if what they are doing can be better/more rewarding to their customers.

  11. #86
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    You were a funder. So put your money where your mouth is... Give a nonessential business that’s been shutdown by Covid an advance with little to no fees AND no payments due for 60-90 days. There’s plenty in California and other areas that need help. Do something creative for your merchants. Merchants need and want the money more than ever. You say everyone is awful in this industry and insult everyone while making zero suggestions and offering zero solutions.

  12. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Dolla View Post
    You were a funder. So put your money where your mouth is... Give a nonessential business that’s been shutdown by Covid an advance with little to no fees AND no payments due for 60-90 days. There’s plenty in California and other areas that need help. Do something creative for your merchants. Merchants need and want the money more than ever. You say everyone is awful in this industry and insult everyone while making zero suggestions and offering zero solutions.
    Did that. At the beginning of Covid. For business owners, clients of mine and my ISO partners, that didn’t secure PPP money early enough, had bills that had to be paid, etc, and those deals were done knowing they weren’t going to be able to pay normally, and even some that we knew might not make it. But most were able to get PPP’s and EIDL’s. We helped a whole lot of our clients get using Cross River. Great people, BTW. And right now, with Stimulus and SBA money still available to small businesses, there should be no reason for a business to have to take an MCA, unless that’s the direction someone decided to take them.

    Again, you don’t know me. And I’m not insulting anyone or any company. And I’m not just talking about MCA when I say Predatory Lending and Servicing needs to end, cause it’s all over, and has been for a long time, in a lot of different markets. All those markets are now a target for AFN. Cause we support small businesses, and the people that serve them with honesty and integrity. Not everyone is awful in this business, but I’m pretty sure I know what side you’re on, Don Dolla. If you want to see how what we will be saying might impact you, tune in.

  13. #88
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    why even waste a thread on this person

    he has 600 views prob all friends and family

    hes a joke

    you think his ”angle” is to help or provide insight? bull ****
    its to make a couple of dollars through youtube because he couldnt rub 2 pennies together in the MCA space

    anyone who curses in replies as much as he does is obv not a person that should be taken seriously

    hes just someone that using the trump unemployment dollars as a cushion to try to start a new career

    but next week when those funds dry up he will be back to brokering or flipping burgers at mcdonalds

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcfunder View Post
    Kinda odd to be threatening to someone who’s looking at cash advances in another angle. This post alone almost explains everything wrong with cash advances in its entirety. David don’t worry about being chastised at all. Your allowed to open up a discussion about how our industry might need some changes. Every industry needs to continuously evaluate themselves and see if what they are doing can be better/more rewarding to their customers.
    pcfunder, what? I did not threaten anybody. Chastise because of my obligations as a fellow in his religion. How is what I said "everything wrong with cash advances"?

    Also, I said that he should fight for regulations, it needs to be an open discussion. How is that a bad idea?

    I 100% disagree with the statement, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." The question is how to deal with gun control. Do you give everyone a gun, or do you take it out of the hands of those who shouldn't have it, or do you ban as much as you can? So too in MCA, it doesn't need to be so violently political and emotional like people make it out to be.

    I do hope that David makes money here. I sincerely hope that no good (fill in your subjection definition of "good") person should ever again have to live through working for free and/or be forced out of their income. If he is running a charity and self-funding, then more power to him. It's more of a curiosity here, and would be interested in knowing

    David, perhaps instead of claiming "MCAs are predatory", warn about the ACTORS who are predatory, in addition to describing that "right now there's little to no need for MCAs." Show them the light of factoring. But for a client who has no collateral, who has no factorable AR, and is not profitable yet, there are just fewer options. There are plenty of not-qualified borrowers who will not qualify for an SBA that they still need access to liquidity.

    A year ago when the PPP and EIDL and SBAs for clients with bad credit outlets didn't exist, what then? Are MCAs only by definition predatory when there's no other access to capital?

  15. #90
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    Hey, anyone know what happened to West Coast? He would be ALL OVER this thread!

  16. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodCustomerService View Post
    I would fund someone with no credit, if they were a real person with a good business, and was willing to accept guidance from true professionals on how to fix their business and themselves. You may not think I’m a professional, but I am and a lot of people know that. I’m unorthodox And unconventional with my underwriting and operations style, but I do it happily.

    As far as community banks, all we want is small business owners to make it their first stop before venturing out into the World Wide Web, cyberspace, or answering a press 1 campaign or click an email to find financing. That’s all. Do community banks decline people? All the time! But most will help their local business get the services they need to get approved in the future, and direct them towards a lot happier of an outcome for their immediate funding needs. Because if they don’t, and that small business owner ends up in the WRONG HANDS in MCA or Fintech, we all know how that story can end.

    I’m nobody’s enemy, unless you have no interest in fixing what’s bad in our world.

    Good Shabbos!
    You completely disregarded the real point of my question, yes obviously, if a merchant has bad credit but a great business then of course you would fund them; but what if its not a great business or if you deem that it is not a great business.

    How many great businesses out there, at first, looked like terrible businesses until they weren't (Amazon for example)

    Thats not the point, the point is, if a funder is willing to take on the risk of funding someone with a crappy business and/or crappy credit rating; why shouldn't they be allowed to factor their risk in their pricing?

    Or do you only believe that businesses that you deem to be great deserve a chance at vital funding (even if expensive)

    It seems very elitist of you. it seems like you are more romanticizing and offering unrealistic solutions much more than using any pragmatic thinking at all. You've likely never been in the type of position to require emergency funding while having a bad credit history or an unimpressive business.

    In reality everyone deserves a chance at obtaining funding, and the funder deserves the right to price the risk into it or the funding will no longer exist for this segment of American Businesses that you look down on.

    "In Theory There Is No Difference Between Theory and Practice - In Practice There Is" (Yogi Berra)

  17. #92
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    I'm so confused on all of this. Are we supposed to pretend that were not charging 50% interest over 6 months with 5-10% fees on a lot of merchants? I mean even if we charged 30% over 12 months with 2% fees, isnt that still extremely high? I know that were also not supposed to use the word "interest" but isn't that just another way of us to "pretend" that we aren't really "lenders" so that we all don't get shut down or arrested?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_lending

    "Subprime lenders specialize in B, C, and D paper.[18] Predatory lending is the practice of overcharging a borrower for rates and fees, average fee should be 1%, these lenders were charging borrowers over 5%.[19]"

    https://www.debt.org/credit/predatory-lending/

    "Predatory lenders typically target minorities, the poor, the elderly and the less educated. They also prey on people who need immediate cash for emergencies such as paying medical bills, making a home repair or car payment. These lenders also target borrowers with credit problems or people who recently lost their jobs."

    https://www.credit.com/blog/what-is-...sidered%20high.

    "According to the National Association of Federal Credit Unions, bank interest rates for a three-year unsecured loan range from 2.9% to 18.86%, with an average of 9.74%, which means anything over 10% is likely to be considered high."

    https://www.lexisnexis.com/legalnews...20usury%20laws.

    "In New York State, charging interest of more than 16% per year is civil usury. Further, in New York, charging, taking, or receiving interest of 25% or more is criminal usury."

    I hate to be that guy because I make a pretty good living doing MCA but I don't see the point in publicly bashing someone for taking a stand for the merchants.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlexibleCapitalSolutions View Post
    In reality everyone deserves a chance at obtaining funding, and the funder deserves the right to price the risk into it or the funding will no longer exist for this segment of American Businesses that you look down on.

    "In Theory There Is No Difference Between Theory and Practice - In Practice There Is" (Yogi Berra)
    I like responding on this thread, because I really do feel like I have the critical thinking processes to answer major questions here and re-focus the discussion as a discussion, rather than mudslinging.

    FCS, not everyone "deserves" everything out there. I would say that a convicted felon who lied to Congress 5 times and was put in prison on wire, mail and bank fraud for running a drug cartel that murdered 10 people does not deserve to be financed. Someone might want to anyway, but does he have a right to? Rights can be very subjective. Also, not everyone "deserves" to buy anything they want, or invest in anything they want. People go to jail for wiring money to terrorists for a reason. In some parts of the world, prostitution is legal to sell, but illegal to buy. These are very big moral questions.

    However, the rest of the post is pretty accurate in my opinion. If it's moral to buy future AR, and it's moral to sell it, then there's every ability for each side to participate in deciding whether or not the pricing makes sense. If there's demand, then the price goes down, but only to the point where it's worth selling it. That's capitalism, without the noise of cartels and monopolies that make it more complex.

    However, there is a reason that brokers in the private mortgage world are licensed. And there's a reason why loans over a legal limit are loan sharking and are illegal without a license.

    It's a very hard balance, but to make it one-sided and emotional is a mistake, unless you have a vendetta (in which case, it's at least understandable, but childish), or to make a very strong push-back to get the result somewhere in the middle (which could be a smart way to go sometimes). I haven't seen many people "push" when they're in the middle somewhere.
    Last edited by abfunders; 07-20-2020 at 04:12 PM.

  19. #94
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    Ok pcfunder , i have a current merchant that used up the ppp money already has a sba loan and no assets or anything to factor.Should i help him by giving him the option of "predatory lending" or tell him to close up and lay off his 30 workers?Keep in mind if i do not give him my kapitus approval he might wind up with someone giving him a way worse offer.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael I View Post
    Ok pcfunder , i have a current merchant that used up the ppp money already has a sba loan and no assets or anything to factor.Should i help him by giving him the option of "predatory lending" or tell him to close up and lay off his 30 workers?Keep in mind if i do not give him my kapitus approval he might wind up with someone giving him a way worse offer.
    fund him

  21. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by abfunders View Post
    I like responding on this thread, because I really do feel like I have the critical thinking processes to answer major questions here and re-focus the discussion as a discussion, rather than mudslinging.

    FCS, not everyone "deserves" everything out there. I would say that a convicted felon who lied to Congress 5 times and was put in prison on wire, mail and bank fraud for running a drug cartel that murdered 10 people does not deserve to be financed. Someone might want to anyway, but does he have a right to? Rights can be very subjective. Also, not everyone "deserves" to buy anything they want, or invest in anything they want. People go to jail for wiring money to terrorists for a reason. In some parts of the world, prostitution is legal to sell, but illegal to buy. These are very big moral questions.

    However, the rest of the post is pretty accurate in my opinion. If it's moral to buy future AR, and it's moral to sell it, then there's every ability for each side to participate in deciding whether or not the pricing makes sense. If there's demand, then the price goes down, but only to the point where it's worth selling it. That's capitalism, without the noise of cartels and monopolies that make it more complex.

    However, there is a reason that brokers in the private mortgage world are licensed. And there's a reason why loans over a legal limit are loan sharking and are illegal without a license.

    It's a very hard balance, but to make it one-sided and emotional is a mistake, unless you have a vendetta) in which case, it's at least understandable, but childish), or to make a very strong push-back to get the result somewhere in the middle (which could be a smart way to go sometimes). I haven't seen many people "push" when they're in the middle somewhere.
    and who decides who deserves what ? is it you, or is there any specific person or entity that you feel comfortable relinquishing your freedom and rights to? and even if you do have this person or entity will they live forever? because if they don't, then are you confident their successors will maintain the same level of fairness you expect?

    Also, just to correct something, these MCAs are not loans, they are factoring contracts with reconciliation clauses. Which means that in reality, and legally, there are no set terms under which they are required to repay them, it is solely based on the performance of the business. It can be within a month or it can take 2 years. It all depends on the performance and sales of the business. How can you calculate APR if you do not ever have a SET term.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlexibleCapitalSolutions View Post
    and who decides who deserves what ? is it you, or is there any specific person or entity that you feel comfortable relinquishing your freedom and rights to? and even if you do have this person or entity will they live forever? because if they don't, then are you confident their successors will maintain the same level of fairness you expect?

    Also, just to correct something, these MCAs are not loans, they are factoring contracts with reconciliation clauses. Which means that in reality, and legally, there are no set terms under which they are required to repay them, it is solely based on the performance of the business. It can be within a month or it can take 2 years. It all depends on the performance and sales of the business. How can you calculate APR if you do not ever have a SET term.
    Because the terms are set in the contract through an ACH daily pull of a specified amount. I think that some companies put something in the contract that allows the merchant to change their daily payment if revenue goes up or down but has anyone ever actually explained that to the merchant or had a merchant use that?

  23. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by pcfunder View Post
    Because the terms are set in the contract through an ACH daily pull of a specified amount. I think that some companies put something in the contract that allows the merchant to change their daily payment if revenue goes up or down but has anyone ever actually explained that to the merchant or had a merchant use that?
    yes, I just mentioned it in the post you are replying to. It's called a reconciliation clause.

    I do not know if it's ever explained to a merchant or not, however, it's there, and it's in writing.

    I am not sure who to place this blame on, do you blame the broker, merchant or funder for the lack of explanation or clarification?

    I guess you can make the argument for either of these, but in my opinion if it's in the contracts, then it's ultimately the merchants responsibility to read the contract.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcfunder View Post
    Because the terms are set in the contract through an ACH daily pull of a specified amount. I think that some companies put something in the contract that allows the merchant to change their daily payment if revenue goes up or down but has anyone ever actually explained that to the merchant or had a merchant use that?
    hundreds of my merchants used it during this pandemic. Alot of funders go through this on the funding call, and good brokers make sure sure that the merchant knows about it

  25. #100
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    This is like all the celebrities complaining about the great U.S.A and saying they will leave the country if trump wins in 2016.Who left?No one.Name one person who left this industry that was successful and left based on their feeling of morality?
    Those who can't do teach

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