[Hedley Lamarr]

Please keep in mind the important fact that the fed can print unlimited money.. what does it matter if some funds go to the wrong place and is misused if they can hold off a complete collapse.

Long term the value of our fiat currency will take a hit, as more people wake up but that is an entirely diffrent conversation regarding currency manipulation, the gold standard, bitcoin, fiat currency, and the old world bartering and trading system.

Somehow, Someway.... someone has to PAY for printing money. If we keep printing money because "oh well...the funds were not used properly" we will have much larger issues.

[Hedley Lamarr]

I thought on what SHOULD have been done.....

If the goal is for the Fed to float payroll for small businesses then do just that. Most small businesses are using a payroll service and if not would be required to join to obtain the stimulus. The business owner files a payroll report to the fed and which service they are using. if the business qualifies the payroll is funded on a regular basis through the bushiness's payroll service. These payroll services like ADP would be required to process the Fed payrolls for a large reduced rate and off-set with a tax credit. Problem solved....the money goes to the right place on a regular basis.

For business relief, small businesses would be required to apply through a bank for a smaller about of funding to help with other business expenses other than payroll. They would be qualified institutions that can quickly open separate business account for the relief funds so they can be dispersed and tracked.

KH

[WestCoastFunding]

Somehow, Someway.... someone has to PAY for printing money. If we keep printing money because "oh well...the funds were not used properly" we will have much larger issues.

When facing a sudden stop in the economy, “waste fraud and abuse” doesn’t even matter. I could see 30% of the businesses evaporating next Friday. ****, that’s probably a conservative estimate. When facing a sudden stop and deflation like we’ve never had in history you’ve literally got to throw dollars at the problem. You worry about hyper-inflation when things are somewhat stabilized.

The way I view it, the patient (US economy) is having a massive heart attack, and the rescue as of right now is equivalent of having the doctors arguing about what lightbulbs should be used in the ER to make sure the hospital captures $5 that year in energy efficiency savings.

[fundingsmbs]

the fact that the gov has to float payroll in itself is troubling. Q2 is going to be a very bad Qtr and many are praying they make up for it with fees on the PPP

[Hedley Lamarr]

When facing a sudden stop in the economy, “waste fraud and abuse” doesn’t even matter. I could see 30% of the businesses evaporating next Friday. ****, that’s probably a conservative estimate. When facing a sudden stop and deflation like we’ve never had in history you’ve literally got to throw dollars at the problem. You worry about hyper-inflation when things are somewhat stabilized.

The way I view it, the patient (US economy) is having a massive heart attack, and the rescue as of right now is equivalent of having the doctors arguing about what lightbulbs should be used in the ER to make sure the hospital captures $5 that year in energy efficiency savings.

I agree somewhat, but you need to have the right doctors in the room. If the goal is to float the payroll ....then float the payroll. It's a hell of a lot easier than making these small business apply for the funds for payroll through banks. Also.....they don't have to float the payroll all at once. They can do so on a regular basis for the next several months. Keep in mind, most business owners are on the same payroll.

[Winning]

Somehow, Someway.... someone has to PAY for printing money. If we keep printing money because "oh well...the funds were not used properly" we will have much larger issues.

And therein lies the rub of fiat currency. There a circles of people that have been preaching what you are saying for decades.

[Winning]

Something just crossed my mine... Similar to the way they are doing unemployment benefits. Maybe they can use a similar method with the Sales Tax info.... When I submit my monthly sales tax report, I have to tell them the Gross revenue, then I also tell them how much revenue was taxable... So that means they have a snapshot of how much money my business normal brings in.. Maybe if they would use that info to determine how the virus has impacted your business to then give funds to compensate for the difference in gross revenue..

PRE Corona monthly revenue $50,000

POST Corna monthly revenue $1,000.

Some kind of way they use that info to determine how much help each business needs.

As gross revenue increases the help is rolled back.

[ryan $]

It says on the link you provided:

"Neither the government nor lenders will charge small businesses any fees."

Goverment or Lender....Doesn't say anything about Document Preparation/Brokers.

I know a guy who made MILLIONS AND MILLIONS on Student Loan Deferment, Yes the Government didn't charge anything to Apply, But he would charge $300 Bucks to Complete/File your Paperwork.

Tax Preparation - Same thing.

[Steven_O]

Goverment or Lender....Doesn't say anything about Document Preparation/Brokers.

I know a guy who made MILLIONS AND MILLIONS on Student Loan Deferment, Yes the Government didn't charge anything to Apply, But he would charge $300 Bucks to Complete/File your Paperwork.

Tax Preparation - Same thing.

Same here... I knew a few. Same model, different industries/services.

[Yankeeman07]

Goverment or Lender....Doesn't say anything about Document Preparation/Brokers.

I know a guy who made MILLIONS AND MILLIONS on Student Loan Deferment, Yes the Government didn't charge anything to Apply, But he would charge $300 Bucks to Complete/File your Paperwork.

Tax Preparation - Same thing.

Regarding PPP - a business owner more than likely go their CPA/Accountant/Bookkeeper to provide the SBA Bank with payroll documents etc.

But if you think you want to play the game of "Document Preparation/Broker download, read & understand
SBA Form 159D - FEE DISCLOSURE FORM AND COMPENSATION AGREEMENT
For Agent Services In Connection With an SBA Disaster Assistance Loan

[CaliFan]

Regarding PPP - a business owner more than likely go their CPA/Accountant/Bookkeeper to provide the SBA Bank with payroll documents etc.

But if you think you want to play the game of "Document Preparation/Broker download, read & understand
SBA Form 159D - FEE DISCLOSURE FORM AND COMPENSATION AGREEMENT
For Agent Services In Connection With an SBA Disaster Assistance Loan

It is against the law to charge any additional fees on these loans as the SBA has disclosed, and the SBA has already provided the broker spread on commission. This is a non-issue.

[ryan $]

Technically your not Charging a Fee on the LOAN
Your Charging a Service Fee to FILE the PAPERWORK in ORDER TO APPLY for the LOAN....

Im not a Lawyer.... But I could make a case.....

[Yankeeman07]

Murky Waters - Keep in mind the merchant is applying for a "Loan" - Let's assume for a moment you are correct,
and you change the maximum $2500.00 fee that is allegedly allowed on the SBA Form 159D - Merchant is declined - then what?

Also IMO - there are a few land mines in the agreement.

https://disasterloan.sba.gov/ela/Documents/Fee_Disclosure_Form_and_Compensation_Agreement_(15 9D).aspx

[ryan $]

Murky Waters - Keep in mind the merchant is applying for a "Loan" - Let's assume for a moment you are correct,
and you change the maximum $2500.00 fee that is allegedly allowed on the SBA Form 159D - Merchant is declined - then what?

Also IMO - there are a few land mines in the agreement.

https://disasterloan.sba.gov/ela/Documents/Fee_Disclosure_Form_and_Compensation_Agreement_(15 9D).aspx

Whose to say the Fee I am charging is limited just to that specific program??????

I've had "Brokers" Charge massive upfront Fee's then shop the merchants file to me, and i get them an MCA (this happens alot in the asian community for some reason)

If Im charging an Upfront Service Fee - Whatever you want to call it, to Capture that Customer, then shopping their file SBA, LOC, MCA Whatever...... all I'm saying is.....IT HAS BEEN DONE.

[ryan $]

Murky Waters - Keep in mind the merchant is applying for a "Loan" - Let's assume for a moment you are correct,
and you change the maximum $2500.00 fee that is allegedly allowed on the SBA Form 159D - Merchant is declined - then what?

Also IMO - there are a few land mines in the agreement.

https://disasterloan.sba.gov/ela/Documents/Fee_Disclosure_Form_and_Compensation_Agreement_(15 9D).aspx

Also If your Agreement makes it clear your Fee is for Document Preparation and Filing and ETC ETC and is Paid upfront and has nothing to do with them being Approved or not. Its just like the example I used above with the Student Loan Deferment - Yea you can Apply yourself, and hopefully it works out, or you can pay our fee and let us handle it for you.

And if your charging more than $2,500 thats ridiculous anyway

[Hedley Lamarr]

Also If your Agreement makes it clear your Fee is for Document Preparation and Filing and ETC ETC and is Paid upfront and has nothing to do with them being Approved or not. Its just like the example I used above with the Student Loan Deferment - Yea you can Apply yourself, and hopefully it works out, or you can pay our fee and let us handle it for you.

And if your charging more than $2,500 thats ridiculous anyway

Ryan,

Investment Bankers use a similar model. There were time when I would charge a client an advisory fee for seeking alternative options for a business. There would be an upfront retainer charged and an hourly rate. For capital raises: Always an exclusive agreement, retainer, and success fees. Size of transaction and scope of work usually dictates fees.
My last engagement as an investment banker was for an advisory role that ultimately turned into a capital raise.
Advisory was $25K upfront and $300 an hour plus expenses. The capital raise was $75Mil .....combination of equity and debt. I lowered the retainer on that portion to $15K . Success fee was 2% on any debtor....senior or mezz. Equity was 2% plus equity/warrants on the back end. I still have the warrants.... Equity closed was $40Mil with a Family Office I know well. Senior and mezz was $35Mil ....bank and mezz fund. I deducted the retainers from fees at closing.

[WestCoastFunding]

Whose to say the Fee I am charging is limited just to that specific program??????

That’s exactly right. Nothing wrong with charging to $2500 to package and refer a 7(a), 7(a) Express, Microloan, 504, conventional term and/or ABL/factoring line and make the PPP “free”.

[golf2014]

The amount of income taxes and sales tax hits will be mind blowing. Us postal service will be insolvent without money by September. The us govt doesnt have the means to worry about businesses not using the money properly.

[Winning]

They need to establish a depository capability and it's not that easy. Since funds are "backed" by the Feds, they will also need to make sure compliance is super tight. Hence the reason it is easier for the banks to do this or act as agent.

Some fintechs might have a great front end to help process, but getting someone to partner with right now is close to impossible.

And let's not forget..... the juice is not worth the squeeze.

I knew it that this would be a perfect fit for PayPal! Laws and regulations were made by people and can be changed by people. Short term "the juice is not worth the squeeze". But long term, these Fintech companies are about to Checkmate the Banks.

Damn, this coronavirus is really changing the landscape! This is crazy exciting times we living in and witnessing.... Madonaa called it when she said "Coronavirus is the great equaliser"..

PayPal, Intuit QuickBooks approved to hand out emergency funds to small businesses in coronavirus program

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/11/payp...ness-loan.html

After weeks of lobbying, fintech companies are officially allowed to take part in the*U.S.government’s emergency lending program.*

Financial Innovation Now*— an industry group representing Square, PayPal, Intuit, Stripe and other non-bank finance companies — sent a letter to Congress in March asking that their members be included in any emergency funding.

“Small businesses are not well served by traditional financial institutions, nor will existing federal small business loan programs deliver funds soon enough,” the letter reads. “Any federal small business loan program must leverage digital advances in the marketplace to ensure that stimulus can reach those business most in need.”

PayPal said it has provided access to more than 900,000 loans and cash advances, and access to more than $15 billion in funding to more than 305,000 small businesses.*

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/11/payp...ness-loan.html

On another note...
I can't wait to day trade the stock market on Monday! I feel really good about this! If you are on shelter in place and have time on your hands please look into doing some daytrading.. My gains have be crazy over the last 2 weeks!. Td ameritrade is free to setup an account, and free to trade, but you will be subject to FINRA PDT rules .. If you want to leverage your money up to 6 times and not be govered by the Finra PDT rules you have to setup an offshore account, but that is really simple and not as scary as it sounds.

[Winning]

PayPal will absolutely end up doing these.

"Who are you?" "I'm BATMAN!"

Hmmmmm.....

When I 1st mentioned PayPal being a perfect fit to do this you immediately co-signed and stated they will be doing this, like you knew the future....

Perhaps you are privi to some inside info, or you know the future.. Either way, I will be paying even more attention to your commentary.

[budlightboy]

LOL the same guy asking how to default if things get "bad enough" has offshore bank accounts and is levering up on day trades.

[Winning]

LOL the same guy asking how to default if things get "bad enough" has offshore bank accounts and is levering up on day trades.

What does my personal hobby day trading have to do with my business entity and my job?

You seriously need to level up.

Winners Win point blank period.

Life gives you lemons, you make lemmonade.

There are tons of positive ways you can look at how I approach what all is going on. But you choose to look at it in a negative light.

BTW, I did not say I had off shore accounts. I did not say who I use. I only provided information.

If you have over $25k in an american brokerage like TD Ameritrade. You are not governed by the FINRA PDT rules, and really no reason to deal with an overseas brokerage. I am not saying what I have, cause that does not matter.. I am only giving info that could potentially help someone else.

[cmarks]

Wanna take a wild guess how long it will actually take for a business to get access to this capital if approved? I would bet they would not see a dime until June if they are lucky. I

So as I Said, 2-3 weeks worse case businesses started seeing their money. There are people saying so in the FB group - 'CARES Act SBA Loan Insight Hub' and heres a link https://www.cbsnews.com/news/paychec...wing-loan-sba/

[Hedley Lamarr]

So as I Said, 2-3 weeks worse case businesses started seeing their money. There are people saying so in the FB group - 'CARES Act SBA Loan Insight Hub' and heres a link https://www.cbsnews.com/news/paychec...wing-loan-sba/

Chris,

I don't need to see a Facebook link. I know what is really going on. The amount that is actually funded so far would be like throwing a deck chair off the Queen Mary.

Best,

KH

[Yankeeman07]

If you want info directly from the SBA, since you do not appear to want to listen to others on this Forum,
sign up for the SBA Updates - http://www.sba.gov/updates

You will receive email updates, plus invitations
to the SBA Small business Recovery Webinars - I'm assuming they are holding these events in different regions of the USA