Need a Funder or Vendor? START HERE

Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    Veteran Reputation points: 148146 J.Celifarco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,441

    Some Questions For When COJ'S Go Away

    Here are some but I am sure there are many many more things I haven't even thought of


    Will COJ's signed before the law goes into effect be able to be filed or will the date of the law mean the end of filing COJ's for the industry? No clue

    How far out will companies be comfortable going without a COJ? I think no father then 3rd maybe some crazies will go 4th

    How many companies with small to no collections departments will now see their overheads scyrocket because they need collections people when before they just had a lawyer file the COJ? This will be a problem or I think so anyway

    Will split deals make a comeback when companies are unable to stack bank accounts anymore? Yes I think there will be more

    How many ISO's go out of business because they don't know how to generate 1st and 2nd position business? Lots

    How many funders lose their lines because their numbers were based on using COJ's
    John Celifarco
    Managing Partner
    Horizon Funding Group

    3423 Ave S
    Brooklyn, NY 11234
    T: (347) 773-3990 | F: (718) 795-1990
    Linkedin: Profile
    Email: john@horizonfundinggroup.com

  2. #2
    Senior Member Reputation points: 79480
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    599

    Guys. Seriously: COJs are good for 1% of the money.
    The other 85% pays
    And 14% gets collected without a COJ

  3. #3
    Senior Member Reputation points: 16870
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    782

    Does the coj enhanxe the percwntage of paybacks, will that change yes

  4. #4
    Veteran Reputation points: 148146 J.Celifarco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,441

    Quote Originally Posted by SmartAdvanced View Post
    Guys. Seriously: COJs are good for 1% of the money.
    The other 85% pays
    And 14% gets collected without a COJ
    not at the high risk funding shops. I think your numbers are way off. I also think it is a security blanket that many funders have gotten used to and when it goes away it will have a big effect
    John Celifarco
    Managing Partner
    Horizon Funding Group

    3423 Ave S
    Brooklyn, NY 11234
    T: (347) 773-3990 | F: (718) 795-1990
    Linkedin: Profile
    Email: john@horizonfundinggroup.com

  5. #5
    Senior Member Reputation points: 24535
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    272

    Business as usuall

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Celifarco View Post
    not at the high risk funding shops. I think your numbers are way off. I also think it is a security blanket that many funders have gotten used to and when it goes away it will have a big effect
    What type of high risk offers are going to disappear, if a COJ isn't an option?

    Seems like there is still a lot of high risk offers out there where the risk model isn't built around the COJ.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Reputation points: 79480
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    599

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Celifarco View Post
    not at the high risk funding shops. I think your numbers are way off. I also think it is a security blanket that many funders have gotten used to and when it goes away it will have a big effect
    1% of money is collected through COJs

    85% through regular payments
    14% through other methods

  8. #8
    Veteran Reputation points: 148146 J.Celifarco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,441

    Quote Originally Posted by BB_Cooper View Post
    What type of high risk offers are going to disappear, if a COJ isn't an option?

    Seems like there is still a lot of high risk offers out there where the risk model isn't built around the COJ.
    there are a couple of funders who do high risk deals without a COJ but not many. I personally dont think you will see anymore of the crazy 6th 7th 8th position deals. If collections is going to be based on UCC's like it used to be before COJ's came into play companies will not be able to do these type of deals, the risk will be too high
    John Celifarco
    Managing Partner
    Horizon Funding Group

    3423 Ave S
    Brooklyn, NY 11234
    T: (347) 773-3990 | F: (718) 795-1990
    Linkedin: Profile
    Email: john@horizonfundinggroup.com

  9. #9
    Senior Member Reputation points: 51665
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    658

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Celifarco View Post
    there are a couple of funders who do high risk deals without a COJ but not many. I personally dont think you will see anymore of the crazy 6th 7th 8th position deals. If collections is going to be based on UCC's like it used to be before COJ's came into play companies will not be able to do these type of deals, the risk will be too high
    and FORGET about those who are proud to fund DEFAULTS!!!!! that'll go away too

  10. #10
    Veteran Reputation points: 148146 J.Celifarco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,441

    Quote Originally Posted by NoBigDeal View Post
    and FORGET about those who are proud to fund DEFAULTS!!!!! that'll go away too
    100% true on this
    John Celifarco
    Managing Partner
    Horizon Funding Group

    3423 Ave S
    Brooklyn, NY 11234
    T: (347) 773-3990 | F: (718) 795-1990
    Linkedin: Profile
    Email: john@horizonfundinggroup.com

  11. #11
    Today is like a holiday. I'll mark it down on my calendar and celebrate it each year as the day predatory lenders, abusive funders and sham artist finally caused enough carnage that the government stepped in and bailed out the other guys. The ones who decided to keep their hands in their pockets when everyone else was grabbing without cause. Without legal right. Do I think COJ's are to blame? No. I only blame the guys that decided to use it as a weapon. COJ's have been around a lot longer than Yellowstone and Richmond Capital and served a more important purpose in an MCA than fraudulently filing them to cash and grab from already desperate merchants. They were used to screw the scumbag merchants who didn't pay. The ones who deserved it. Now, that won't be possible, and truly that does suck. For the amount of risk we take on borderline credible merchants, no COJ effectively makes them unfundable. I don't want to hear about "Now Funders need to ACTUALLY underwrite their deals" because that's bullshit. A COJ had nothing to do with the underwrite. It was simply there for risk of fraud on a poor scored borrower. Then it became a doc to make a funder more comfortable to give a merchant WAY more money than they deserved, on top of already expensive and toxic MCA debt. Maybe to some this is more like D-Day. To me, it's the beginning of a better potential future for our clients. It's a blessing.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Reputation points: 51665
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    658

    Quote Originally Posted by GoodCustomerService View Post
    Today is like a holiday. I'll mark it down on my calendar and celebrate it each year as the day predatory lenders, abusive funders and sham artist finally caused enough carnage that the government stepped in and bailed out the other guys. The ones who decided to keep their hands in their pockets when everyone else was grabbing without cause. Without legal right. Do I think COJ's are to blame? No. I only blame the guys that decided to use it as a weapon. COJ's have been around a lot longer than Yellowstone and Richmond Capital and served a more important purpose in an MCA than fraudulently filing them to cash and grab from already desperate merchants. They were used to screw the scumbag merchants who didn't pay. The ones who deserved it. Now, that won't be possible, and truly that does suck. For the amount of risk we take on borderline credible merchants, no COJ effectively makes them unfundable. I don't want to hear about "Now Funders need to ACTUALLY underwrite their deals" because that's bullshit. A COJ had nothing to do with the underwrite. It was simply there for risk of fraud on a poor scored borrower. Then it became a doc to make a funder more comfortable to give a merchant WAY more money than they deserved, on top of already expensive and toxic MCA debt. Maybe to some this is more like D-Day. To me, it's the beginning of a better potential future for our clients. It's a blessing.
    What's the whole point of the contract then? And all the legal verbiage in the event a merchant defaults? The contract itself should hold up in court, even against real fraudsters. The real benefit the COJ gave was the timing it took to recoup the money

  13. #13
    Senior Member Reputation points: 283077
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    3,055

    Quote Originally Posted by NoBigDeal View Post
    What's the whole point of the contract then? And all the legal verbiage in the event a merchant defaults? The contract itself should hold up in court, even against real fraudsters. The real benefit the COJ gave was the timing it took to recoup the money
    Unfortunately regulators felt is was being abused. COJ required funders were executing the COJ when companies were not actually in default and in some cases seizing assets will above what was owed....not by a little.....A LOT. Some felt that the users of COJs were using them as a tool to grab funds from good customers that barely defaulted over and above what was owed to cover losses with customers that never paid back.
    [B]Kevin Henry

  14. #14
    Senior Member Reputation points: 275181
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    3,052

    Quote Originally Posted by SmartAdvanced View Post
    1% of money is collected through COJs

    85% through regular payments
    14% through other methods
    the question is on the 85% how many continued paying because they signed a coj?I recently saw a merchant that had 5 positions and only defaulted on the 2 that did not have a coj.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Reputation points: 158630
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,202

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Henry-Seacoast View Post
    Unfortunately regulators felt is was being abused. COJ required funders were executing the COJ when companies were not actually in default and in some cases seizing assets will above what was owed....not by a little.....A LOT. Some felt that the users of COJs were using them as a tool to grab funds from good customers that barely defaulted over and above what was owed to cover losses with customers that never paid back.
    Just wait until they dig deeper and find that a funder often stacks THEMSELVES causing the default and then swoops the COJ into the courthouse. Now that will be interesting.

  16. #16
    Veteran Reputation points: 120507 Chambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    3,135

    Quote Originally Posted by NoBigDeal View Post
    What's the whole point of the contract then? And all the legal verbiage in the event a merchant defaults? The contract itself should hold up in court, even against real fraudsters. The real benefit the COJ gave was the timing it took to recoup the money
    Correct...but now one will have to go through normal legal channels. That takes time...and money

  17. #17
    Senior Member Reputation points: 7556 cmarks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    193

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael I View Post
    the question is on the 85% how many continued paying because they signed a coj?I recently saw a merchant that had 5 positions and only defaulted on the 2 that did not have a coj.
    So youre saying that if merchants were defaulting on the ones without COJs, then all those funders not using COJ have it backwards? 1 file isnt a sample size. Funders need to stay below about 12% default rate, with or without.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Reputation points: 199212
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    1,331

    if it passes what happens to COJ that have already been filed?

  19. #19
    Chrome Capital will be purchasing receivables on 3-6th positions with or without COJ.

    Www.chromecapitalfunding.com

Similar Threads

  1. Newby Questions
    By GIGATT50 in forum Promotions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 05-15-2018, 07:43 PM
  2. Newbie Have Some Questions
    By IamGrateful in forum Merchant Cash Advance
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 10-29-2015, 03:33 PM
  3. a few Novice Questions
    By mrmcfadden in forum Merchant Cash Advance
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 11-14-2014, 10:47 AM


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •