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  1. #1
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    My 2019 AMEX and Paypal Offers

    I've never taken a deal with Paypal Loanbuilder Swift in the past but they are still actively pursuing me.. Received a call from them yesterday with "New Special Promotional Pricing Just for Me"... Also American Express sends me a flier about 1 once every 3 months about their "great" programs as well!

    So last year Paypal offered me a 45K 36 Week ACH deal for 1.146 and a 45K 52 Week ACH deal for 1.18
    You can see that post last year by visiting https://dailyfunder.com/showthread.p...eekly-payments

    Here is what Paypal Loanbuilders is currently offering me.

    $50K for a fee of $2959 paid back via 36 $1471.08 Weekly ACH Payments.
    (52959 / 50000 = 1.059 Effective Rate)

    $50K for a fee of $5023 paid back via 52 $1058.13 Weekly ACH Payments.
    (55023 / 50000 = 1.10 Effective Rate)

    $65K for a fee of $3846 paid back via 36 $1912.39 Weekly ACH Payments.
    (68846 / 65000 = 1.059 Effective Rate)

    $65K for a fee of $6530 paid back via 52 $1375.58 Weekly ACH Payments.
    (71530 / 65000 = 1.10 Effective Rate)

    $75K for a fee of $4887 paid back via 39 $2048.38 Weekly ACH Payments.
    (79887 / 75000 = 1.065 Effective Rate)

    All the paypal deals presented to me has a form of an early Repayment discount, but with strings attached.. If you repay the balance early and do another deal with them, you don't have to pay the effective rate on the large lump sum principle payment.. They will not roll in the existing outstanding principle into a new loan...You have to pay it in full 1st, receive the discount for doing so, then fund the renewal deal.


    Here is what AMEX is offering me.

    $48K for a fee 3840 paid back in 12 months with 251 $206.53 Daily ACH Payments.
    51840 / 48000 = 1.08 Effective Rate
    Also Amex has "An Up To" 25% fee discount for early repayment.

    $101K for a fee of 16160 paid back 24 months using a Credit Card batch percentage withholding.
    117160 / 101000 = 1.16 Effective Rate
    Also Amex has "An Up To" 25% fee discount for early repayment.

  2. #2
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    Effective rates are only relevant if you annualize them.

    Nonetheless, I'm still calculating 17.8% and 21.1% effective rates on the first two Loanbuilder offers. Not a bad return.

  3. #3
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    call Marcus at Mantis he can give you a better deal.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunya View Post
    Effective rates are only relevant if you annualize them.

    Nonetheless, I'm still calculating 17.8% and 21.1% effective rates on the first two Loanbuilder offers. Not a bad return.
    I do that conversion as part of my analysis as well.. When you say you did the numbers on the 1st 2 Loanbuilder offers, you mean the 2018 offers from last year?

    But just to help some other business owners who may not know what you are saying...
    To convert all the rates to a more traditional rate you have to divide 12 months by the term of the deal, then multiple your rate by this number..

    So if I were to convert all my number from my 2019 offers post in this thread it would look like this...

    Paypal Loanbuilders is currently offering me.

    $50K for a fee of $2959 paid back via 36 $1471.08 Weekly ACH Payments.
    (52959 / 50000 = 1.059 Effective Rate)
    36 Week Interest rate = 5.9%
    52 weeks / 36 weeks = 1.44
    1.44 x 5.9% = 8.496% Annualized Factor Rate. ..

    $50K for a fee of $5023 paid back via 52 $1058.13 Weekly ACH Payments.
    (55023 / 50000 = 1.10 Effective Rate)
    Interest Rate = 10% ( this is already an Annualized Factor Rate. )

    $65K for a fee of $3846 paid back via 36 $1912.39 Weekly ACH Payments.
    (68846 / 65000 = 1.059 Effective Rate)
    36 Week Interest rate = 5.9%
    52 weeks / 36 weeks = 1.44
    1.44 x 5.9% = 8.496% Annualized Factor Rate..

    $65K for a fee of $6530 paid back via 52 $1375.58 Weekly ACH Payments.
    (71530 / 65000 = 1.10 Effective Rate)
    Interest Rate = 10% ( this is already an Annualized Factor Rate. )

    $75K for a fee of $4887 paid back via 39 $2048.38 Weekly ACH Payments.
    (79887 / 75000 = 1.065 Effective Rate)
    39 Week Interest rate = 6.5%
    52 weeks / 39 weeks = 1.44
    1.33 x 6.5% = 8.645% Annualized Factor Rate..

    Amex

    $48K for a fee 3840 paid back in 12 months with 251 $206.53 Daily ACH Payments.
    51840 / 48000 = 1.08 Effective Rate
    Interest Rate = 8% ( this is already an Annualized Factor Rate. )


    $101K for a fee of 16160 paid back 24 months using a Credit Card batch percentage withholding.
    117160 / 101000 = 1.16 Effective Rate
    24 Months Interest rate = 16%
    12 Months / 24 Months = 0.5
    0.5 x 16% = 8% Annualized Factor Rate..
    Last edited by Winning; 04-24-2019 at 10:16 AM.

  5. #5
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    That conversion really helps you clearly see that AMEX is the best offer if the "cost" of the money is what is most important.. They came in at 8% when converting everthing to 12month apr equivalents!
    Using this method you can quickly cut through all the BS and get to the real numbers... Thanks @nunya for bringing this up to share!

  6. #6
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    Those rates you're calculating are not actually interest rates - they're annualized factor rates. They would be 8.x% if there was a single balloon payment at maturity but you're paying along the way. Because of that, the actual % rate is higher.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunya View Post
    Those rates you're calculating are not actually interest rates - they're annualized factor rates. They would be 8.x% if there was a single balloon payment at maturity but you're paying along the way. Because of that, the actual % rate is higher.
    What tha what!!!
    Lol, what you just said went completely over my head..

    But I am intrigued..

    Ok... Annualized Factor Rates....
    I just letting it sink in along with everything else you said, and mentally breaking down what you said...

    Every time I come here I learn something...

    They should teach this stuff in high school!
    Last edited by Winning; 03-20-2019 at 05:21 PM.

  8. #8

  9. #9
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    So wanted to update this thread..

    Yesterday I called Paypal and AMEX to see what new offers where on the table.

    Paypal.
    When I called them, they transferred me to the rep that was already assigned to my file.
    He saw the numbers and offers that were made earlier this year. But he said that my account now has some different offers available to me. He proceeded to tell me that my account has a designation that he could immediately fund me 48K with no stipulations for a weekly 12 month weekly ACH payback. He also showed that in the event I wanted more I had the option to go as high as 100K but that would need to go through there underwriting where they would need to see the last 4 months of bank statements. Here are the details of that new offer.


    $48K for a fee of $7642 paid back via 52 $1070.05 Weekly ACH Payments.
    Total Payback = 55642
    (55642 / 48000 = 1.16 Effective Rate)
    Annualized Factor Rate 16%


    $100K for a fee of $15922 paid back via 58 $2002.29 Weekly ACH Payments.
    Total Payback = 115922
    (115922 / 100000 = 1.16 Effective Rate)
    Annualized Factor Rate 16%

    Those deals are 6% higher than the amount I was offered 3 months ago.. He then said that if I could email him the AMEX offer that I received in the past he could match there rate. So I then forward the email from Amex, and he instantly offered me new rates..


    $48K for a fee of $5505 paid back via 52 $1005.83 Weekly ACH Payments.
    Total Payback = 52303.10
    (52303.10 / 48000 = 1.089 Effective Rate)
    Annualized Factor Rate 8.9%

    And said if I wanted to up to 100K, I would need to provide 4 months of bank statements and the rate would be the same lower 1.089 rate as well.

    Wow! What can I say..

    I was a little skeptical with this whole no stips no underwrting thing that he said my account was already approved for, so I had him send me contracts... With in 5 minutes I had an email via Docusign with contracts spelling out the terms, with WebBank exactly like he stated.. Loan Amount $48000, Total Interest Charge $4303.10, Number of Weekly Payments 52, Weekly Payment Amount $1005.83, Total Repayment $52303.10.

    That was super efficient and I was on the phone with the guy for maybe 30 minutes to receive an unbeatable offer ready for me to sign. He said that if I sign it I would have the funds in my bank account the next day.
    Last edited by Winning; 05-08-2019 at 12:47 PM.

  10. #10
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    Another New Update...

    So the post above this one, over 6 months ago regarding the Paypal and Amex offer I had, Paypal did match the 1.089 rate that Amex offered me.. I did take the deal...

    So today Paypal reached back out to me for a renewal.. Here are the numbers on what they are now offering me now to take more money.

    $21,122.37 is my current amount I owe them, I have paid back 31 out of 52 payments. I own another 21 payments.

    If I do a new deal with them they will deduct a fee amount of $745.70 from my remaining balance.

    I am pre approved for $71,900. No Stip, No Docs loan.. They have already sent me the Docusign Letter. If I sign it tonight. the wire will go out at 12pm tomorrow.

    The numbers on the new DocuSign are as follows..
    $71900 Loan Amount.
    $6446.00 Total interest charge.
    52 Number of weekly payments.
    $1506.65 Weekly Payment Amount
    $78346.00 Total Repayment Amount.
    1st Payment drafted on Jan 2nd 2020.

    I calculate that as..
    1.089 = Effective Rate ($78346 / $71900 = 1.089)
    8.9% = Annualized Factor Rate

    So on the surface that does look like the same type of deal that they gave me before..

    But I have never done a renewal before... So how should I calculate the value of them deducting the $745.70 fee from my existing loan?

    Also, even though the approval for the new loan is fro $71900, I will not get that as a deposit.. You have to deduct the existing balance minus the fee deduction to calculate my actual new deposit.
    Which is.. $71,900 - ($21,122.37 - $745.70) = $51,523.33.
    $51,523.33 in the deposit amount the new deal would yield.

    So the next step I think would be to calculate the total amount of time combined for both deals, the total amount of payments I would have sent in after this new deal is over with, and calculate the total amount of funds that would have been deposited into my account... Then I could evaluate the total value of the entire relationship. I have all the number to do these calculations... Wife is calling me for dinner,, I will be back later..

    If someone one wants shed some light on this feel free, Am I going about evaluating this correctly???
    Like I said this would be my 1st renewal I have ever done. So I have to make sure I understand exactly whats this means before I accept or sign anything.
    Last edited by Winning; 12-18-2019 at 07:03 PM.

  11. #11
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    Evaluation on the complete relationship if I take a renewal deal from paypal..
    05/2019, Paypal Deposits $48,000 in to my bank account
    05/2019 - 12/2019, I have repaid 31 payments of $1005.83 = $31,180.73‬
    12/2019 Renewal Deal, Paypal would deposit $51,523.33.
    01/02/2020 - 12/31/2020, I would repay 52 payments of $1506.65 = $74386.

    Total deposit made by paypal would have been $99,523.33 ($48000+$51,523.33‬=$99,523.33).
    Total repayments made by me would have been $105,566.73‬ ($31,180.73+$74386=$105,566.73‬)
    Total time of the deals would be 83 weeks or 19 months. (31 weeks + 52 weeks = 83 weeks).

    So to calculate the cost of the entire 83 week deal...
    $105,566.73 / $99,523.33 = 1.060 Effective Rate.
    83 Week Interest rate = 6.0%
    52 weeks / 83 weeks = 0.6265
    0.6265 x 6% = 0.03759 = 3.759% Annualized Factor Rate

    Wow that is really cheap! and on top of that I don't have to provide any docs or stips, + same day funding (the can do a 12pm wire or a 4pm wire) Amazing!

    Evaluating the complete relationship, the renewal money becomes a lot cheaper than the 1st deal by itself! I think I would almost be silly not to take the renewal... ???
    Last edited by Winning; 12-19-2019 at 11:00 AM.

  12. #12
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    I am still on the fence about doing a renewal.. No one here has chimed in yet, so I am assuming these PayPal offers are unbeatable?

    BUT that is only my assumption. For me really to know what other offers are available to me, I think I would need to finish off the last 21 payments for the existing paypal deal, then from a clean slate with no positions see what Amex, PayPal, ISO's, Brokers, Funders, FinTech providers, etc all have to offer and counter offer, to see what's the best available, and may the best deal win so to speak...

    From my past experiences I win the most when the service providers compete against each other for my business.. And I am sure paypal knows this, that's why they would want to get me in a renewal.
    Last edited by Winning; 12-20-2019 at 10:45 AM.

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