[Jstarr]

I see alot of chatter about backdooring and selling applications / leads from clients,

What are the laws pertaiing to circulation, distribution and selling ones financial information and applications without the clients written consent ? this would pertain to the ones that backdoor as well...

Its Illegal.. Period

What do you think.

[Hedley Lamarr]

I see alot of chatter about backdooring and selling applications / leads from clients,

What are the laws pertaiing to circulation, distribution and selling ones financial information and applications without the clients written consent ? this would pertain to the ones that backdoor as well...

Its Illegal.. Period

What do you think.

Yeah, I think one could get themselves in some trouble for selling or distributing someone's financial information without permission.

[ryan $]

But then think about it.....

Broker can Submit it to 200 Lenders, after x Days that Submission sits it becomes able to be shopped out by that lender if no offer sold, that goes out to 20 more iso shops to get submitted 200 more times. And around and around we go.

Or a Lead Gen Company sells submission packages. I don't see the rub.

Car Insurance Quote Companies Sell Applications w/ SS#'s and DL #'s...

Same ****. Data.

Not to mention signing the App the merchant agrees to let Company and Partners (however its worded) to work the app. So what if a "Partner" provides a few bucks to the person who generated the application for said app. Why does money make it dirty? Apps can go anywhere as many times as they want but as soon as someone exchanges money THEN ITS WRONG?

Are you serious?

Apps are blasted out and shopped out a million times. I've bought submission packages before. I don't see the issue. Merchant stated they want funding, signed application which includes partners/affiliates/whatever else - grants permission.....

[Hedley Lamarr]

But then think about it.....

Broker can Submit it to 200 Lenders, after x Days that Submission sits it becomes able to be shopped out by that lender if no offer sold, that goes out to 20 more iso shops to get submitted 200 more times. And around and around we go.

Or a Lead Gen Company sells submission packages. I don't see the rub.

Car Insurance Quote Companies Sell Applications w/ SS#'s and DL #'s...

Same ****. Data.

Not to mention signing the App the merchant agrees to let Company and Partners (however its worded) to work the app. So what if a "Partner" provides a few bucks to the person who generated the application for said app. Why does money make it dirty? Apps can go anywhere as many times as they want but as soon as someone exchanges money THEN ITS WRONG?

Are you serious?

Apps are blasted out and shopped out a million times. I've bought submission packages before. I don't see the issue. Merchant stated they want funding, signed application which includes partners/affiliates/whatever else - grants permission.....

Ryan $,

What you are saying is very true.... Information is passed along or sold in a variety of different industries. With the application signed and stating that your are allowed to share this information with partners does not give anyone the legal right to sell the information and I am pretty sure there are laws to protect consumers and business owners regarding this. Now...distributing someone's signed application to 200 people, one would have to define "partner" if a regulator knocked on their door.
I'll stay in the camp of protecting the prospect's information so I don't have to explain somebody else's actions....

[bankergirl]

its still grimy ... would you want your information sent to God knows who..... its unethical

[ryan $]

its still grimy ... would you want your information sent to God knows who..... its unethical

What do you think happens when you apply for one credit card? Then over the next 2 years receive 30 in the mail....

It is what it is.


The key question is what makes it unethical? Read the fine print.

The fact its being shopped out.... it happens even if someone isnt buying the "lead" "submission" whatever.... **** gets shopped.

Is it ALL unethical? or just because they are buying it

[Jstarr]

You are correct kevin, i think it would invove some jail time... but these brokers think they are " smarter" than everyone else.

[HDF]

Selling information with SS#s and EINs is obviously a serious breech of ethics and won't stand up as being legal either no matter what the application says.

Credit card companies swap customer and prospect data all the time. But not the sensitive information as entrusted to a broker/advisor.

[Karen37a]

When you say "brokers" are shopping the information out. Which brokers do you all think are shopping these out?

It's the FUNDERS who sent a deal to another funder and didn't let the broker who submitted know that they did it 50% of the time.

Or someone setting up shop as a Direct funder when they are not OR certain funders only having X amount of money to fund for the month and sending the balance of the applications out within a few days or not waiting 14 days 30/60 days.

The Isos/Brokers have been playing a nasty game of "hold on to your file" while they get passed and the rate gets dropped behind their back.

The chatter you are hearing about is some Funders and their inside sales team...not outside brokers/isos?...and they have always done it, people were yelling on here " I was backdoored" for a few years now....they are just getting caught more because there are fewer applications and when brokers send in an application they are realizing when it slips through the cracks because they need the money

That and people /brokers breaking their non compete agreement when they leave a company ( this has been going on for decades)

Whats new and what I experienced in this industry specifically is fending off the backend brokers trying to backdoor you before 14-30 days

[Karen37a]

Edit** This is why people go to Isos or Super Isos...to try to generate enough volume to matter

[Karen37a]

PS. You cant "sell "dog shiate files....if it could have been funded it most likely would have been funded


and if you want the files /business names numbers for free....go look up UCCs and grab the yellow pages

[johndough17]

I see alot of chatter about backdooring and selling applications / leads from clients,

What are the laws pertaiing to circulation, distribution and selling ones financial information and applications without the clients written consent ? this would pertain to the ones that backdoor as well...

Its Illegal.. Period

What do you think.

Jerry, some of the direct funders in our space have seperate shops, or brokers they work with, to send apps and statements to, to close. It's in the iso agreement that's signed by the broker. Typically there is no exclusitivty unless it's breakout ondeck qspot, etc.

It's not just the high risk guys, even a/b/c shops do it (no sales team typically means another iso of theirs will close it, win win).

Some funders receive 20,000 apps and statements a month, and approve about 30%-60%, and fund 20%-25%. And what do you do with the ones just sitting there? You close them (once a broker shops it, and doesn't close it, if you don't do it, someone else will, it happens ALL the time).

From what I've heard and discussed the only regulation that might come to our industry any time soon, is having to disclose the points we make. Once that happens, it'll make our industry an extremely tough one to making a killing in, unless you're doing some high volume (1m-2m for yourself funded a month).

[ryan $]

Jerry, some of the direct funders in our space have seperate shops, or brokers they work with, to send apps and statements to, to close. It's in the iso agreement that's signed by the broker. Typically there is no exclusitivty unless it's breakout ondeck qspot, etc.

It's not just the high risk guys, even a/b/c shops do it (no sales team typically means another iso of theirs will close it, win win).

Some funders receive 20,000 apps and statements a month, and approve about 30%-60%, and fund 20%-25%. And what do you do with the ones just sitting there? You close them (once a broker shops it, and doesn't close it, if you don't do it, someone else will, it happens ALL the time).

From what I've heard and discussed the only regulation that might come to our industry any time soon, is having to disclose the points we make. Once that happens, it'll make our industry an extremely tough one to making a killing in, unless you're doing some high volume (1m-2m for yourself funded a month).

Thats why I dont like quarterspot - it shows commish in contracts

[WestCoastFunding]

Not to mention signing the App the merchant agrees to let Company and Partners (however its worded) to work the app.

This is true. But the keyword is “partners”. Sure, apps usually provide language that allows for the ISO and it’s funding/lending partners to pull credit. But a partnership involves an agreement between multiple partners - either written or verbal. But when it comes to true backdooring and stealing of files, the new party isn’t a partner. Therefore the apps don’t allow for just anyone who gets their hands on the file to pull credit.

[ryan $]

This is true. But the keyword is “partners”. Sure, apps usually provide language that allows for the ISO and it’s funding/lending partners to pull credit. But a partnership involves an agreement between multiple partners - either written or verbal. But when it comes to true backdooring and stealing of files, the new party isn’t a partner. Therefore the apps don’t allow for just anyone who gets their hands on the file to pull credit.

They

[WestCoastFunding]

They said just selling applications.
Not backdooring them.

Again ill use my scenario where I know for sure this happened. Rapid Capital Funding used to sell their declines to Isaac at Yellowstone for $200 Bucks a pop.

He mentioned backdooring twice.

[ryan $]

He mentioned backdooring twice.

from his original post he seperated backdooring and then just the act of selling applications

[Max016]

It is hard to find Qualified merchant cash advance leads .

[Big Mack]

Edit** This is why people go to Isos or Super Isos...to try to generate enough volume to matter

Some of the "super ISO's" are the worst culprits when it comes to this.