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  1. #1
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    Am i getting fairly compensated?

    It all began as a summer job but I've gotten so much more success than I would have imagined. I am currently working as a sales rep for a Direct Lender/ Broker hybrid and I'm getting paid 3 - 4 % of funded amount on each deal depending on high/low, not total payback. 80% of the deals we fund are 1.40-1.45 5-6 months In-house funding so these are expensive loans. We do anywhere from 1st to 3rd position ( and some 4ths ). I prospect and close all the deals.

    I just got paid a huge check this week closing 7 deals this week but wonder if I'm still getting paid on the lower end. Is it worth it for me to continue working for this company or go independent? Keep in mind i have a strong client base already.
    Last edited by HonestPerson; 08-30-2015 at 07:03 PM.

  2. #2
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    Your "strong client base" actually belongs to your company. If you go independent, you'll start from scratch.

  3. #3
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    I love how your name is honest person and your contemplating stealing their clients .
    FYI commission you are getting is pretty decent

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael I View Post
    I love how your name is honest person and your contemplating stealing their clients.
    Quote Originally Posted by HonestPerson
    80% of the deals we fund are 1.40-1.45 5-6 months In-house
    If he's selling deals at these rates, he's already ceded the high road.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the response!

    Regarding the expensive rates, you can only sell what your company is offering. Like i said, 1.40 was considered the down-sell. The main reason I thought of going independent is exactly to help out my clients from these expensive advances my company is offering.

  6. #6
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    Regarding client stealing, never thought of it that way. I am the only one making contact with the merchant and the merchant has little to no connection to the company itself. The relationship is strictly with the merchant and agent.

    I can definitely see how it would be considered stealing clients if I were to start independent since the company provided the leads. That would be something to weigh against saving my clients alot of money.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by HonestPerson View Post
    Regarding client stealing, never thought of it that way. I am the only one making contact with the merchant and the merchant has little to no connection to the company itself. The relationship is strictly with the merchant and agent.
    Makes no difference at all from a legal standpoint as you are operating under the scope of your employment and thus all of your activity therein belongs to the company.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by HonestPerson View Post
    Thanks for the response!
    I wasn't talking to you.

  9. #9
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    I am aware now that the company owns the file. Now lets say i abolish the file and contact the clients separately and make him aware that I am now independent. The merchant then agrees to send his file over to me. Would that be acceptable from a legal standpoint?

  10. #10
    It really boils down to what you contractually agreed upon within the terms of your employment contract. You should review everything you signed for a non-compete or non-solicitation clause...

  11. #11
    ...and by the way, I'm only responding directly to your question and my answers should not be construed as an endorsement of this type of behavior.

  12. #12
    jotucker1983
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    Quote Originally Posted by HonestPerson View Post
    It all began as a summer job but I've gotten so much more success than I would have imagined. I am currently working as a sales rep for a Direct Lender/ Broker hybrid and I'm getting paid 3 - 4 % of funded amount on each deal depending on high/low, not total payback. 80% of the deals we fund are 1.40-1.45 5-6 months In-house funding so these are expensive loans. We do anywhere from 1st to 3rd position ( and some 4ths ). I prospect and close all the deals.

    I just got paid a huge check this week closing 7 deals this week but wonder if I'm still getting paid on the lower end. Is it worth it for me to continue working for this company or go independent? Keep in mind i have a strong client base already.
    Yes, go independent if everything that you are doing for the Broker can be duplicated independently including how you guys produce data, leads, etc. The only way you would want to stay with the Broker was if you couldn't duplicate the position independently. If you can duplicate it independently you are going to make a lot more money, especially if you are selling 1.40 - 1.45 deals on the "majority" of your deals.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Reputation points: 50566 ADiamond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HonestPerson View Post
    Thanks for the response!

    Regarding the expensive rates, you can only sell what your company is offering. Like i said, 1.40 was considered the down-sell. The main reason I thought of going independent is exactly to help out my clients from these expensive advances my company is offering.
    you're not going to get better than a 1.40 5-6 month term on any 3rd or 4th position deal. unless you have $25k to lose by investing in your new company i would stay right where you are.
    Anthony Diamond
    Underwriter

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by HonestPerson View Post
    Regarding client stealing, never thought of it that way. I am the only one making contact with the merchant and the merchant has little to no connection to the company itself. The relationship is strictly with the merchant and agent.

    I can definitely see how it would be considered stealing clients if I were to start independent since the company provided the leads. That would be something to weigh against saving my clients alot of money.

    It's great to be independent, but unless you're "funding" these clients yourself - aka - putting up your own money for their advances... you will have an extremely difficult time dealing with alot of these lenders with their so-called "great reputations".

    Alot of deal-stealing is still going on, little or no responses after you've submitted deals and funding behind your back with no weight/muscle in your corner to fight for your commissions.

    Alot of broker shops are either ran by or already have the reputation and relationships with these lenders and work solely with their guy on the inside.

    Coming in as a "nobody" from the outside is not as incredible as it appears.

    (speaking from personal experience)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRUMPcard View Post
    It's great to be independent, but unless you're "funding" these clients yourself - aka - putting up your own money for their advances... you will have an extremely difficult time dealing with alot of these lenders with their so-called "great reputations".

    Alot of deal-stealing is still going on, little or no responses after you've submitted deals and funding behind your back with no weight/muscle in your corner to fight for your commissions.

    Alot of broker shops are either ran by or already have the reputation and relationships with these lenders and work solely with their guy on the inside.

    Coming in as a "nobody" from the outside is not as incredible as it appears.

    (speaking from personal experience)
    Self-discipline may be one of the biggest hurdles when going out on your own. Not having a boss has it's perks, but you better have a plan, metrics, and a schedule you stick to just like a normal sales job. Seems cliche but hold yourself accountable, it will pay off.

  16. #16
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    Am i getting fairly compensated?

    That's good advise. It's simple, not everybody can go at it as an independent. It takes balls, self discipline, skill, and self motivation. All that completely aside you need to have the funds to back yourself or a money partner to keep the well full.

    Just as much as this industry allows an extremely low, almost not existent barrier to entry. It is also as competitive as any industry in existence. Without the proper marketing/lead gen budget your self motivation and skill set can only take you so far.

    I'd love to see the numbers, if it were public, on how many independent ISO's exit this industry per month vs how many enter. I wouldn't be overly shocked to learn the exit side is greater than those entering.
    Last edited by KTK; 09-01-2015 at 11:59 PM.

  17. #17
    jotucker1983
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    I would still be interested to know, what is the company providing you to work "for them" that you can't duplicate on your own independently?

    In terms of the requirements of the position, both are the same, you have to go turn the data provided into leads, those leads into applications, and those applications into funded deals.

    - Is the company going to provide exclusive data that will make it so that you can produce more leads in quantity, more leads in quality, or both?

    - Is the company going to provide an overall "larger" compensation structure due to some special negotiated commission structure that they have with said Lenders that you can't get independently?

    - Does the company have some sort of special technology that makes performing the job more efficient?

    - Does the company have some sort of access to special pricing, special products, special lenders, etc., that you can't duplicate access to independently?

    Bottom line, what is the competitive advantage that the company that you would "work for" providing, that you can't duplicate independently?

    If the answer is that there's no competitive advantage, then what is the point of working for someone else to do the same position that you can do for yourself and make more money?

    In terms of motivation, paying the bills and keeping food on the table should be all the motivation one needs to stay on schedule independently, just as you would do on W-2 working for someone else.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jotucker1983 View Post
    Yes, go independent if everything that you are doing for the Broker can be duplicated independently including how you guys produce data, leads, etc.
    Lol this is much easier said than done. This is the number 1 reason why most agents should NOT go out on their own. Not everyone can spend 10K-20K a month on marketing to replicate the lead flow from working for an established shop. If you're just going to hump a dialer on your own all day long that's a different story...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCNetwork View Post
    Lol this is much easier said than done. This is the number 1 reason why most agents should NOT go out on their own. Not everyone can spend 10K-20K a month on marketing to replicate the lead flow from working for an established shop. If you're just going to hump a dialer on your own all day long that's a different story...
    From what I've heard, most shops don't give new reps much in the way of "leads" anyway. Almost all of them require upwards of 150 dials and 3 hours of talk time per day. I can't think of a single program for a rep where they sit there all day and wait for the phone to ring or for internet leads to roll in. The 'eat what you kill' philosophy is common, and most shops want their reps to at least meet them halfway, meaning they need to gen some leads through cold calls before they get any purchased leads.

  20. #20
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    Fortunately I never worked in this type of churn and burn environment. The firms I worked for invested in some serious lead gen, so their reps got 3-5 qualified leads each day. And that's why a team of four experienced closers could close several million dollars in new deals each month...
    Last edited by MCNetwork; 09-02-2015 at 10:54 AM.

  21. #21
    jotucker1983
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    MCN,

    Good point, if the company has a large marketing budget to spend $20,000 a month ($240,000 a year) on marketing, then maybe they can produce leads in quantity (and quality) that can't be duplicated independently?

    But here's my question, are you going to just sit down all day and work inbound leads that come in? Or, are you going to be required to take a pile of generic data, run through it with a Predictive Dialer and turn a portion of that data into leads?

    If the company has it setup to where all you have to do is sit there, wait for the phone to ring or wait for inbound leads to come to you, and all you have to do is "close" them, then okay that makes sense to work W-2. But is that really the setup though?

  22. #22
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    That's the main point. The largest, highly capitalized shops do the former. The smaller start-up shops do the latter because barriers to entry are low. Top closers who work in the former can make several hundred grand a year and would be crazy to leave their firms. If you are good in a dialer setting and can generate a decent pipeline, then you're obviously talented and should probably go out on your own or try to land a job in a big shop.

  23. #23
    jotucker1983
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    MCN,

    I see now, well, I guess you learn something new everyday lol. I haven't ran into any firms like the ones you described in virtually any sales position I have ran across. Every sales position that I've ran across, required the bulk of your performance to come from the generation of your own leads through running through data, building up a center of influence network to get referrals, and other strategic partnerships that you have to go out and establish.

    So I said to myself that if I'm the one that has to go out here and round up everything anyway, why not just do this independently to make more money, have client ownership and recurring revenue?

    But if there are large broker shops in our industry that are spending hundreds of thousands a year to bring in inbound leads, and all you have to do is show up everyday, work those leads, and hit a particular quota that's established, then I think that's a great deal.

    I have just never seen anything like that in our space (MCA/Alt Loans and Merchant Services) nor outside of it. I have seen where they will throw you an inbound lead here or there, but I haven't seen it to where all you have to do is work inbound leads.
    Last edited by jotucker1983; 09-02-2015 at 11:50 AM.

  24. #24
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    Believe me, these types of firms are all over New York City. Spots are pretty competitive though. Out in Michigan, I doubt these types of firms exist

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jotucker1983 View Post
    I would still be interested to know, what is the company providing you to work "for them" that you can't duplicate on your own independently?

    In terms of the requirements of the position, both are the same, you have to go turn the data provided into leads, those leads into applications, and those applications into funded deals.

    - Is the company going to provide exclusive data that will make it so that you can produce more leads in quantity, more leads in quality, or both?

    - Is the company going to provide an overall "larger" compensation structure due to some special negotiated commission structure that they have with said Lenders that you can't get independently?

    - Does the company have some sort of special technology that makes performing the job more efficient?

    - Does the company have some sort of access to special pricing, special products, special lenders, etc., that you can't duplicate access to independently?

    Bottom line, what is the competitive advantage that the company that you would "work for" providing, that you can't duplicate independently?

    If the answer is that there's no competitive advantage, then what is the point of working for someone else to do the same position that you can do for yourself and make more money?

    In terms of motivation, paying the bills and keeping food on the table should be all the motivation one needs to stay on schedule independently, just as you would do on W-2 working for someone else.
    To answer your question, much of the process can be duplicated since all leads are outbound dialer based. The competitive advantage the company offers would be ability to send out deals and also provide in-house offers. ( keep in mind 80% of the deals are funded in-house ). There is definite advantage in having control of the deal and having the option of same-day funding internally even if the rates are high. Also, I keep the commission regardless of performance of merchant after funding, and keep same commission for all renewals.
    Last edited by HonestPerson; 09-06-2015 at 12:25 AM.



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