[Moneyformerchant]

A blacklist website or section of this website where one can mention names of individuals who others should clearly stay away from. It could be a merchant or a lender, even a crooked ISO or lead gen group. There needs to be a master list.

[Scott Williams]

There is a new website/database focused on bad merchants that is going to be released soon. Some of the legal aspects are still being worked out but should be available soon.

[Sean Cash]

A blacklist website or section of this website where one can mention names of individuals who others should clearly stay away from. It could be a merchant or a lender, even a crooked ISO or lead gen group. There needs to be a master list.

One existed/still exists on here but few people contributed to it. Your account has to be granted a special privilege to be able to see it. There have been no contributions in over a year and no one's been granted access since then.

The challenge with compiling a list of "crooked ISOs" or "crooked lead gen groups" is that crooked can easily just be someone's opinion. Labeling someone a fraud or crooked in a public database is a great way to invite the lawyers of said individuals/companies to complain about it.

And as for the suggestions that the victim supply evidence of wrongdoing, it's still a risky idea. What if there is evidence by the other side that refutes it? A forum is not supposed to be a court of law. There are actual courts for that sort of thing.

There are two ways to survive without a funder/iso/lead gen blacklist.

1.
(a) If you have witnessed or have evidence of fraud, report said people/company to the appropriate branch of law enforcement. 99% of companies in this industry seem perfectly content to reject fraudsters when encountered but not do anything to hold them accountable. General shadiness might not constitute fraud and not getting what your contract said is probably only cause for a lawsuit, but in the instances of genuine fraud, report them.

(b) We can have entire debates about best practices and trade associations and regulation, but at the end of the day, cleaning up the industry starts with your efforts to root out actual criminal activity. Here in New York, the slogan is: If You See Something, Say Something.


2. Conduct a background check. The bigger players in the industry do the following:

• Run background searches on their partners (be they funders, ISOs, or lead generators)
• Pull their credit (Some funders will review the credit history of their ISOs and syndicators)
• Ask for references
• Google them
• Do a site visit

One of the biggest challenges with the NAMAA merchant blacklist is wondering whether or not the funder that put on them there had a legitimate reason to. Could they have had an ulterior motive? Was the breach of the agreement (if there was one) a result of miscommunication? NAMAA members of course have to abide by a certain code to place a merchant in the database, but it's not like it was vetted by a judge after considering all the evidence. At the end of the day, it's just somebody's list.

And while I admittedly still like the idea, it's a challenging endeavor that probably at least for now is not appropriate for DF to do.

Scott mentioned something about a database for merchants. I'm interested to see how it turns out!

[SupremeCapitalGroupinc]

Everyone wants to save this industry. I been doing this going on 6 years now and I see brokers fabricsting lies and stories all the time. Just being haters! kinda like office gossip between callers. The way I see it is go to work and make money and do not open up that door for the haters. Some of us actually will sue.

[mcaguru]

At cresthill we need our ISO's to feel safe, I would never report to a list an ISO for a deal gone bad, I see to often a funding house ripping apart an ISO for 1 deal gone wrong. reporting a merchant is different.

[ADiamond]

A blacklist website or section of this website where one can mention names of individuals who others should clearly stay away from. It could be a merchant or a lender, even a crooked ISO or lead gen group. There needs to be a master list.

why would we want to warn each other of these things? for free? if they aren't smart enough to catch it then they deserve what they get. this is business.

[J.Celifarco]

why would we want to warn each other of these things? for free? if they aren't smart enough to catch it then they deserve what they get. this is business.

Why would you want to risk getting defrauded yourself?.. A little cooperation can save everyone from making mistakes on the same merchant over and over. Sounds like a no brainer to me.. Share a little information to save yourself from potentially making a mistake that could cost tens of thousands of dollars

[ADiamond]

Why would you want to risk getting defrauded yourself?.. A little cooperation can save everyone from making mistakes on the same merchant over and over. Sounds like a no brainer to me.. Share a little information to save yourself from potentially making a mistake that could cost tens of thousands of dollars

not going to share a data base of info with competitors to save their ass for free, what kind of sense does that make?

[J.Celifarco]

not going to share a data base of info with competitors to save their ass for free, what kind of sense does that make?

because it is going to save your ass as well.. I dont care how good you are at this you are gonna make mistakes and this could save you from a mistake

[ADiamond]

because it is going to save your ass as well.. I dont care how good you are at this you are gonna make mistakes and this could save you from a mistake

so let's make a free data base where lender's can pour into our space faster and easier than the rate they are right now and let's show them what to do for free so they can make our business more difficult?

i get what you're saying trust me I do but the pros do not outweigh the cons. i'd rather take a hit 1 out of 10 times every so often than to keep other's in business and make them money and avoid that one hit.

[J.Celifarco]

so let's make a free data base where lender's can pour into our space faster and easier than the rate they are right now and let's show them what to do for free so they can make our business more difficult?

i get what you're saying trust me I do but the pros do not outweigh the cons. i'd rather take a hit 1 out of 10 times every so often than to keep other's in business and make them money and avoid that one hit.

OK point taken on a free database, but there has to be a middle ground where the people who have been in the space for a while share information to limit the amount of fraud deals that go around or to get rid of the bottom rung iso's pushing bad deals

[WhoisKingsley]

I agree with a directory. There is one for Funders just for you to get information and contact to reach out- I do believe their should be one for EVERYONE.

Those who are afraid of this know the power it holds and will force them to get their act together...

[4scaps]

I think it is definitely something that needs to be discussed....

[anonymous]

Why would you want to risk getting defrauded yourself?.. A little cooperation can save everyone from making mistakes on the same merchant over and over. Sounds like a no brainer to me.. Share a little information to save yourself from potentially making a mistake that could cost tens of thousands of dollars

We've learned by making those mistakes on our own. Why allow competitors to benefit from our time/effort. I'd rather set them back as far as possible. Frankly, we should make a fake black-list with all of the best lenders on it.

[J.Celifarco]

We've learned by making those mistakes on our own. Why allow competitors to benefit from our time/effort. I'd rather set them back as far as possible. Frankly, we should make a fake black-list with all of the best lenders on it.

I see where you are coming from but just disagree. Why let a merchant who defrauded you go out and do it to 2 or 3 other banks?? If you are a bank and have an ISO pushing bad deals why allow them to work with other banks?? Share a little info with each other and get these people out of the industry.

[anonymous]

Why let a merchant who defrauded you go out and do it to 2 or 3 other banks?? If you are a bank and have an ISO pushing bad deals why allow them to work with other banks??

Why not? I am speaking more from an ISO standpoint than a lender's perspective. I may have misread, but it is my understanding that the idea was to make a database of actual lenders to help guide uninformed (and/or new) ISOs. I could never get behind that. It's taken a considerable amount of time and resources to go through trial and error with 50+ lenders to determine who is who and what is what. If it's a question of placement on a particular deal coming from someone who we know to have some industry knowledge, I am happy to help. But to lay out a blueprint for competitors would be asinine.

[ridextreme]

what Banks?

[BCC DC]

So you prefer to benefit a fraudulent merchant than a brother lender who has been fooled? A database of fraudulent merchants will benefit everybody except for the fraudulent merchants themselves. Maybe if and when it comes up you should not access it.

[FUNd]

so let's make a free data base where lender's can pour into our space faster and easier than the rate they are right now and let's show them what to do for free so they can make our business more difficult?

i get what you're saying trust me I do but the pros do not outweigh the cons. i'd rather take a hit 1 out of 10 times every so often than to keep other's in business and make them money and avoid that one hit.

This has existed for years. It's called a credit report.

[GoodCustomerService]

Unfortunately some merchants may be fraud to some ISO's and funders but to others they aren't. I know merchants that have deliberately screwed over numerous funders but still maintain a strong relationship with a few and continue to get funded. They are coached at the highest level on how to maneuver our business in and out of existing advances, how to slow pay certain companies or get buy outs from others and just stack all over again. You'd have to sit down with each funder and share not only your default deals, but possibly some of your best payers to have a chance to compile a list of the industry scum. Nobody would be willing to do that because it would turn into total mayhem.

[J.Celifarco]

Unfortunately some merchants may be fraud to some ISO's and funders but to others they aren't. I know merchants that have deliberately screwed over numerous funders but still maintain a strong relationship with a few and continue to get funded. They are coached at the highest level on how to maneuver our business in and out of existing advances, how to slow pay certain companies or get buy outs from others and just stack all over again. You'd have to sit down with each funder and share not only your default deals, but possibly some of your best payers to have a chance to compile a list of the industry scum. Nobody would be willing to do that because it would turn into total mayhem.

the whole basis of your argument is on a merchant who has taken multiple advances and stacked on all of them.. You are starting your argument off with a bad merchant.. This guy has already breached multiple advance contracts and if he is will to be coached he should be black listed across the board. Why would we want to deal with people liek this, it will just bring the whole industry down

[GoodCustomerService]

Hey "Crumble" "Crumble". That's the industry breaking apart under your feet. These merchants you want to black list will always find a broker and a funder to get money from. Until the day they go out of business. Or, and this is my favorite, they rack up a ton of debt on one entity, create a new one under the wife/girlfriend/Son/Daughter's name and start all over again.

[J.Celifarco]

Hey "Crumble" "Crumble". That's the industry breaking apart under your feet. These merchants you want to black list will always find a broker and a funder to get money from. Until the day they go out of business. Or, and this is my favorite, they rack up a ton of debt on one entity, create a new one under the wife/girlfriend/Son/Daughter's name and start all over again.

so we should make it easier for them to do it???

[Chambo]

I believe the opinion is "they are going to do it anyway, so might as well make some money off of it"

[GoodCustomerService]

You seem to think this can be controlled by the funders. You want to make an impact? Black list ISO's who are known to pull off the unthinkable by coaching their merchant and manipulating weak funders who are toddlers in the space. Oh wait....that's not possible. Because 9 out of 10 funders rely heavily on ISO business and would rather decide on their own who they will take business from and who they won't based on their own internal default rate with that ISO.