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  1. #1

    Stacking

    Would any of the larger, more reputable MCA companies take a second position, or is that something they would absolutely not do? Thanks.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by debtman222 View Post
    Would any of the larger, more reputable MCA companies take a second position, or is that something they would absolutely not do? Thanks.
    Some will do a 2nd ONLY if the 1st is 50% paid off.

  3. #3
    At Quarterspot we will take a second position and base it on the cash flow from the last 4 months of bank statements. We do not need the first position to be at any specific level. We may provide an offer to buy out the first position. Also, we are not an MCA. We are a term loan for up to 12 months via ACH, no CC split.

  4. #4
    Thanks. I am particularly curious about the larger guys like OnDeck, CAN, BFS, Rapid Advance, AmeriMerchant, and Merchant Cash and Capital.

  5. #5
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    No, at least not intentionally. IOU will.

  6. #6
    A forum user Reputation points: 2147483647 Sean Cash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by debtman222 View Post
    Thanks. I am particularly curious about the larger guys like OnDeck, CAN, BFS, Rapid Advance, AmeriMerchant, and Merchant Cash and Capital.
    With the exception of OnDeck, I can't see any of them doing it. They are part of the loud anti-stacking crowd and trying to get the industry to end the practice.

  7. #7
    no one in that crowd stacks

  8. #8
    Veteran Reputation points: 157541 J.Celifarco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by debtman222 View Post
    Thanks. I am particularly curious about the larger guys like OnDeck, CAN, BFS, Rapid Advance, AmeriMerchant, and Merchant Cash and Capital.
    Nobody on this list stacks.. Auto decline for most if they see a stack in the merchants past

  9. #9
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    I just got an email blast from NewEra... notice it says SECOND position. Not 3+++++++++++ (You're Welcome NewEra)

    YOU’RE
    INVITED
    ​to the
    BIG 2nd Position
    Event!

    Funding Amounts Up to $300k
    &
    7 month terms

    Up to 10 point commissions
    WE WANT TO FUND YOUR NEXT 2ND POSITION APPLICATION

  10. #10
    Has anyone dealt with a company that stacks over Quarterspot? I've got a merchant who has a $100k balance and has the balances and deposits to take on more.

    He does about $200k a month and is looking for another $50k.

  11. #11
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    jaynyone- Okay he has a $100k balance on what terms? UW are going to look at the % taken out to determine another loan. On top of that- Yes, it matters the monthly gross, but what about his balances? NSF? If he takes another $50k the term will be shorter and expensive and exceed what any lender is comfortable giving. Also- you just completely put yourself out there to QS.

    What mostly everyone doesn't understand is the longer the term the less money the lender or the person/people/company that are giving these lenders the money to lend make. MONEY COSTS MONEY- even to the funders. The terms are short RISK=PRICE (obvious) BUT they only go up to certain % on the stack. Example- Seconds they won't go over X% of monthly gross.

  12. #12
    A forum user Reputation points: 2147483647 Sean Cash's Avatar
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    A reminder to everyone here since I see brand new funders coming on who barely have enough capital to even afford a real email address, yet they're advertising 2nd positions and more. If you stack, expect to be sued.

    Whether or not you think funding a merchant additional advances is within your right is something you will have to convince a judge or the plaintiff's attorney about. Tortious interference lawsuits and settlements are happening all the time behind the scenes. It doesn't matter if it's a 10th position or a 2nd position. Do not stack unless you have a huge cash reserve for attorney fees or better yet I advise you don't stack at all. If you can't figure out how to fund businesses that don't have cash advances already, you're in the wrong business.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Reputation points: 148 Capital Stack's Avatar
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    lol


    Quote Originally Posted by isaacdstern View Post
    no one in that crowd stacks

  14. #14
    Member Reputation points: 44 JeffMulford's Avatar
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    So much for the Sherman anti trust act of 1890...

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    Preach!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffMulford View Post
    So much for the Sherman anti trust act of 1890...
    How is this anti-competitve?

  17. #17
    Veteran Reputation points: 134971 Chambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean bash View Post
    A reminder to everyone here since I see brand new funders coming on who barely have enough capital to even afford a real email address, yet they're advertising 2nd positions and more. If you stack, expect to be sued.

    Whether or not you think funding a merchant additional advances is within your right is something you will have to convince a judge or the plaintiff's attorney about. Tortious interference lawsuits and settlements are happening all the time behind the scenes. It doesn't matter if it's a 10th position or a 2nd position. Do not stack unless you have a huge cash reserve for attorney fees or better yet I advise you don't stack at all. If you can't figure out how to fund businesses that don't have cash advances already, you're in the wrong business.
    Lord knows Rapid (with newly minted Gilbert $) and Can capital have ample funds. Heck, they probably have in house atty's just sitting around waiting to draft up the paperwork

    On Deck won't be too far behind if they actually go through with the offering. Then again, they might have their hands full with the shareholder lawsuits

  18. #18
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    Retail capital will stack on a second position under 2 conditions:

    -As long as that first position lender is not a NAMAA member, http://northamericanmaa.org/category/our-members/
    -There is enough gross they can squeak out. Retail rarely stacks on top of On Deck because they are known for eating into a lot of the gross on a first position

    However, you may want to heed Sean Bash advice.....
    Second place? Set of steak knives.

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    In the eyes of the LAW, is there a difference between stacking a loan vs. a business cash advance? I don't know the law from my elbow but it seems like taking legal action to prohibit a business owner from engaging in a sale may be in violation of that business owners' constitutional rights…

    Loans… it makes sense to me… Any experts on this? Sean?

  20. #20
    A forum user Reputation points: 2147483647 Sean Cash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBallentine View Post
    In the eyes of the LAW, is there a difference between stacking a loan vs. a business cash advance? I don't know the law from my elbow but it seems like taking legal action to prohibit a business owner from engaging in a sale may be in violation of that business owners' constitutional rights…

    Loans… it makes sense to me… Any experts on this? Sean?
    I am not a lawyer but I believe the NAMAA member perspective is that the merchant agrees to terms that require approval from the funder to okay additional debt even if it's unsecured since it could endanger the funder's purchase of future revenues. I get the argument on both sides but this is something the merchant signs off on when getting funded.

    At least 1 NAMAA member includes a notice in all UCC filings that roughly says lending to or purchasing future revenues of this business constitutes malicious tortious interference. I can go grab the actual language if anyone wants to see for themselves.

    The challenge with that is that an actual unsecured lender is probably not going to do a UCC search. The first time I ever got extended unsecured business credit, the only thing they looked into was my personal credit and banking.

    So it would be negligent for a secured lender to plead ignorance but an unsecured creditor, I don't know.

    And on a slightly unrelated topic, Robert Cook of the financial services law firm Hudson Cook at Lend360 said that a personal guaranty of performance is still a personal guaranty. Something to chew on about contracts in the MCA industry.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean bash View Post
    I am not a lawyer but I believe the NAMAA member perspective is that the merchant agrees to terms that require approval from the funder to okay additional debt even if it's unsecured since it could endanger the funder's purchase of future revenues. I get the argument on both sides but this is something the merchant signs off on when getting funded.

    At least 1 NAMAA member includes a notice in all UCC filings that roughly says lending to or purchasing future revenues of this business constitutes malicious tortious interference. I can go grab the actual language if anyone wants to see for themselves.

    The challenge with that is that an actual unsecured lender is probably not going to do a UCC search. The first time I ever got extended unsecured business credit, the only thing they looked into was my personal credit and banking.

    So it would be negligent for a secured lender to plead ignorance but an unsecured creditor, I don't know.

    And on a slightly unrelated topic, Robert Cook of the financial services law firm Hudson Cook at Lend360 said that a personal guaranty of performance is still a personal guaranty. Something to chew on about contracts in the MCA industry.
    I hear a lot about people being taken to court for stacking. If anyone would know, I am guessing you would Sean; Has anyone, Stacker or Stackee, been taken to court by a Lender who has won a judgment against them? Monetary or an injunction?

  22. #22

    Stacking

    Lendini is doing 1st and 2nd position deals, very aggressive 1-2 hour approvals (3-6 month terms ) and limited stips on back end. They push to fund same day contract is signed !!! Low buy rates and Paying 10 on funded, commissions paid same day of funding within 24 hours !!! 2nd position approvals at 1st position rates, buy rates on 2nds as low as 1.20 on 650 and above credit !!! Lendini.com. All ISO's must Check them out.....

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie.deangelis View Post
    Lendini is doing 1st and 2nd position deals, very aggressive 1-2 hour approvals (3-6 month terms ) and limited stips on back end. They push to fund same day contract is signed !!! Low buy rates and Paying 10 on funded, commissions paid same day of funding within 24 hours !!! 2nd position approvals at 1st position rates, buy rates on 2nds as low as 1.20 on 650 and above credit !!! Lendini.com. All ISO's must Check them out.....
    Interesting... I'm seeing more and more sites reference "technology" when there really is none. I guess companies are seeing the value in ease and speed, so if you don't actually make it easier and faster, you should pretend I suppose...

    By the way - we try not to use any words that sound too technical anywhere on our site because the best technology doesn't appear to be technical at all... And folks don't care about how much "technology" you have anyway... They want the cash.
    Last edited by JayBallentine; 10-23-2014 at 07:03 AM.

  24. #24
    Member Reputation points: 1126 Lendini's Avatar
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    Thanks Eddie
    Last edited by Lendini; 10-23-2014 at 06:55 AM.

  25. #25
    Member Reputation points: 1126 Lendini's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=JayBallentine;12502]Interesting... I'm seeing more and more sites reference "technology" when there really is none. I guess companies are seeing the value in ease and speed, so if you don't actually make it easier and faster, you should pretend I suppose...[/QUOTE

    Thanks Jay, anytime you want to talk about our "fake" technology I'd love to get on the call. Until then maybe you could stick to writing pdf books and copying websites.

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